Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#31

Post by evanprodromou » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 5:46 PM UTC

d0m wrote: post #9

I don't know for Open Source project, but I often think about leaving Montreal as it's really hard to find good co-founders and to get investments. Usually, investors have ideas on what they would like to invest and you'd have to forget your project and build theirs. Also, IMO, the french problem isn't a problem since the big majority of the startup world speaks english. For instance, if one person speaks english and…

I totally agree that it's a hard place to have a startup. That's one of the reasons ecosystems matter to founders (see http://nextmontreal.com/12-reasons-a-healthy-startup-ecosyst... for my thoughts on the matter).

I think if there's critical mass, there can be a strong ecosystem here if we specialize.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#32

Post by narcissus » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 5:54 PM UTC

levesque wrote: post #24

narcissus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may also have been your accent. I'm Australian but have lived in Canada for the last 5 or 6 years, so I knew of all the 'frustrations' that Anglophones feel when trying to speak French in Quebec. Anyway, I was in a bar one night in Montreal and asked a waitress the best thing that I could do to improve my French. "In all honesty," she said, "you have an accent, so you're allowed to try". Basically, if you're Canad…

For my part, I know that I love it when I see English Canadians trying to speak French - I do my best to help them practice. I could be pissed at someone who's lived in Quebec for a loong time (5 years +) and who still doesn't speak French, but that's about the only case. All in all, it's only a question of motivation. If you're focused and you keep practicing, you will get better... the trick is to prevent people fr…

That's a really good point and I appreciate you trying to help. To be honest, the 'frustrations' that I had heard about were all second hand stories, so it is hard for me to say that it really is a problem.

Having said that, I agree: everyone should be giving it a go. I live on PEI so it's a bit harder, but trips to New Brunswick are great as you see the English / French mix there as well: I think the bilingualism is amazing.

Merci :)

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#33

Post by arach » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 5:57 PM UTC

imack wrote: post #21

yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France? While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.

Adding to your point, it is very important to note that France French != Quebec French. When a Montrealer goes to Paris and starts speaking French, the Parisian will get confused and respond in English if they know it.

I think you're exaggerating. Parisians may tease Quebecers, but that's just to keep themselves in teasing shape. Teasing is a sport, you gotta practice. Most French people will be able to understand most Montrealers.

It should be noted that France itself has many regional accents that are quite strong.

Also to be noted, there is a steady flow of young French people immigrating to Montreal.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#34

Post by arach » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:18 PM UTC

piranha wrote: post #25

nkassis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For localization purposes, people in Montreal are experienced with issues that are required to translate software properly. They deal with this stuff all the time for local businesses.

Oh well, this happens everywhere in non-english-speaking countries.

When your default market is multilingual, you don't just translate your software, you deal with supporting more than one language from the start. I don't know how many markets are bilingual by default.

I'm not saying that internationalization is the hardest problem to grasp, but there is a difference between building a single language system versus a multilingual system.

[edit] re: > non-english-speaking countries When your non-english-speaking country also speaks english, you're happier.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#35

Post by potatolicious » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:18 PM UTC

ianl wrote: post #6

imack wrote: post #3

"As for talented potential employees… that’s tougher" No kidding. What Montreal has going is pretty impressive, but Quebec has an abnormally high personal income tax rate and the language issue is always going to hang like a cloud over it. I know everyone in Montreal speaks english, but the default is French and all public signs are too. While some Canadians will put up with that because our country is founded on pla…

I'm going to be graduating soon from Dalhousie in Halifax with a BCSci, and I would be more than willing to move to Montreal. You won't import American talent to Montreal however, why would they come to Canada when they can move to New York, Boston, Seattle, or the mecca of technology in North America Silicon Valley. This doesn't mean that Montreal won't be a technology hub, but it has to compete with Waterloo which…

> "why would they come to Canada when they can move to New York, Boston, Seattle, or the mecca of technology in North America Silicon Valley"

As a Canadian working in Seattle... come here for a visit. There are a lot of Canadians in all of the above places, and most of them are just itching for a chance to go home.

Cost of living, social stratification (in a way that we really don't feel in Canada), health care... the list goes on.

Not to mention, if you like the whole metropolitan lifestyle, the Valley really cannot compete, nor Seattle (found that out the hard way)... and NYC/Boston are much more expensive than Toronto/Montreal.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#36

Post by impendia » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:20 PM UTC

Maciek416 wrote: post #11

imack wrote: post #3

"As for talented potential employees… that’s tougher" No kidding. What Montreal has going is pretty impressive, but Quebec has an abnormally high personal income tax rate and the language issue is always going to hang like a cloud over it. I know everyone in Montreal speaks english, but the default is French and all public signs are too. While some Canadians will put up with that because our country is founded on pla…

I think climate also counts too. I can't remember where I saw this mentioned in the context of tech startups (pg's essays, probably), but if you're good enough and ambitious enough to choose whatever location you like, why not choose a location that has all the "nice place to live" qualities? Not to mention, "a nice place that wealthy tech investors want to live in". Last week I saw Lane Becker give a talk at SproutU…

"I don't think local pride, ambition, or even "we have smart people" really resonate with anyone outside of those locales. Smart people are everywhere..."

Disagree. I've never been to Montreal, but I've heard from people who are from there and would jump at a chance to live there for awhile. Smart, creative, talented people are everywhere, but in some places there are many more of them and they are easier to find.

Cold winters will turn off a sizable number of people, yes, but many would be undeterred.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#37

Post by delano » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:24 PM UTC

bravura wrote: post #30

[disclosure: I'm a personal friend of the author of this article.] I lived in Montreal for three years, or four winters, depending upon how you count. I believe that Montreal has the most important element necessary to become an open-source startup hub, namely a lot of good talent. The language barrier exists, but is not strong enough that it has hindered any open-source efforts in Montreal (as far as I've seen). The…

There is no shortage of business ambition in Quebec in general. But we do need to develop a better culture of aggressively going after a target market.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#38

Post by fatso784 » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:34 PM UTC

imack wrote: post #3

"As for talented potential employees… that’s tougher" No kidding. What Montreal has going is pretty impressive, but Quebec has an abnormally high personal income tax rate and the language issue is always going to hang like a cloud over it. I know everyone in Montreal speaks english, but the default is French and all public signs are too. While some Canadians will put up with that because our country is founded on pla…

Being an American programmer going to university in Montreal, I totally agree with this statement. :D

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#39

Post by delano » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:42 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

evanprodromou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I think that the bilingualism is a strength. After all, the strongest Open Source markets in the world today are international. If Montreal can represent a bridge between North America and Europe, there's an opportunity for synergy there.

How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France? While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.

It's not limited to language. It's also very much about culture. Montreal is literally and figuratively half-way between North America and Europe.

Re: Can Montreal Become an Open Source Startup Hub?

#40

Post by jasonlotito » Mon, Feb 21, 2011, 6:55 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #19

evanprodromou wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. I think that the bilingualism is a strength. After all, the strongest Open Source markets in the world today are international. If Montreal can represent a bridge between North America and Europe, there's an opportunity for synergy there.

How will Montreal represent a bridge to anyplace besides France? While France isn't nothing (60 million people with a bit less disposable income than the US), USA+Canada+France is less than 20% bigger than USA+Canada.

Montreal has a lot of other nationalities represented beyond the French. It's not unusual to find someone who speaks French, English, and their mother tongue. My wife, for example, speaks Italian, French, and English.