What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#31

Post by sneak » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:51 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #30

sneak wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20965354/nsa-intelligenc... https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/26/nsa-improper-phone-records... https://www.wired.com/2010/12/realtime/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/not-just-nsa-dat...

> https://www.theverge.com/2019/11/14/20965354/nsa-intelligenc... . >The NSA has stopped collecting location data from US cellphones without a warrant uh, isn't that a counter-proof? edit: > https://techcrunch.com/2019/06/26/nsa-improper-phone-records... . > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A not exactly location data > https://www.wired.com/2010/12/realtime/ sounds like a great way to under-count people with po…

Look at the second link for why it isn’t. Don’t believe spies when they claim to have stopped spying (after repeatedly demonstrating that they are willing to break the law to spy).

IP addresses are absolutely location data. The subscriber records of major network providers, both fixed and wireless, are known to the IC. An IP address is a street address and subscriber name.

Most states have programs to ensure that even the poorest have wireless phones, if for no other reason than to enable job application callbacks. Very, very few people do not carry any sort of phone, and all phone metadata in the US, including and especially location, is under continuous logging and surveillance.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#32

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #25

crooked-v wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay is actually pretty decent, and is cost-of-living adjusted. In Portland where I live, for example, it's $18/hour, which is way better than some temp jobs I've had.

So in theory, I should hold off on answering so someone gets paid to come to my house? Do they have a quota to hit, like if I take my time with them do they get punished?

If you believe in the broken window fallacy and have time to kill, yes.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#33

Post by dsfyu404ed » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #26

This is worth quoting here IMHO: "However, even if you don't get fined for not filling out the census form, there are some good reasons you should do it anyway. Seats in the House of Representatives seats are apportioned by population, with the most populous states receiving the most seats. Federal and state governments rely on census data to budget for social welfare programs that assist the poor, elderly, disabled…

>Seats in the House of Representatives seats are apportioned by population, with the most populous states receiving the most seats.

People in the minority party in solidly red/blue states would want their state to lose votes in order to increase the representation of their party.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#34

Post by coryrc » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:53 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #26

This is worth quoting here IMHO: "However, even if you don't get fined for not filling out the census form, there are some good reasons you should do it anyway. Seats in the House of Representatives seats are apportioned by population, with the most populous states receiving the most seats. Federal and state governments rely on census data to budget for social welfare programs that assist the poor, elderly, disabled…

Some of us live where we oppose all of the current elected officials. In that case, it sounds like opting out is the only effective "vote" we can make in a FPTP system

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#35

Post by rolleiflex » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:54 AM UTC

One thing I’m curious about is, why does a country need to do this in the first place?

From the example I’m familiar with: the last ever census in Turkey was held in 2007. There on, there is now a live, real-time count of everyone in the country. Why doesn’t that work in the US?

Surely US is capable of it, but I wonder if the blockage is inertial, political or just not enough of a priority.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#36

Post by jeffdavis » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:55 AM UTC

dawnerd wrote: post #25

crooked-v wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pay is actually pretty decent, and is cost-of-living adjusted. In Portland where I live, for example, it's $18/hour, which is way better than some temp jobs I've had.

So in theory, I should hold off on answering so someone gets paid to come to my house? Do they have a quota to hit, like if I take my time with them do they get punished?

Or maybe they would prefer to spend their time finding people who are actually hard to enunerate, rather than wasting on someone who is just looking to consume their time.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#37

Post by kadoban » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 1:56 AM UTC

rolleiflex wrote: post #35

One thing I’m curious about is, why does a country need to do this in the first place? From the example I’m familiar with: the last ever census in Turkey was held in 2007. There on, there is now a live, real-time count of everyone in the country. Why doesn’t that work in the US? Surely US is capable of it, but I wonder if the blockage is inertial, political or just not enough of a priority.

In short? Because the Constitution specifies how it must be done, any ambiguity is enshrined in tradition, and neither is realistically changeable.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#38

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 2:05 AM UTC

coryrc wrote: post #34

lsiebert wrote: post #26

This is worth quoting here IMHO: "However, even if you don't get fined for not filling out the census form, there are some good reasons you should do it anyway. Seats in the House of Representatives seats are apportioned by population, with the most populous states receiving the most seats. Federal and state governments rely on census data to budget for social welfare programs that assist the poor, elderly, disabled…

Some of us live where we oppose all of the current elected officials. In that case, it sounds like opting out is the only effective "vote" we can make in a FPTP system

That's like cutting of the nose to spite the face.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#39

Post by stonogo » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

rolleiflex wrote: post #35

One thing I’m curious about is, why does a country need to do this in the first place? From the example I’m familiar with: the last ever census in Turkey was held in 2007. There on, there is now a live, real-time count of everyone in the country. Why doesn’t that work in the US? Surely US is capable of it, but I wonder if the blockage is inertial, political or just not enough of a priority.

"Counting everyone in the country" is one aspect of the census effort. Looking at where they live, what they do for a living, and if they live alone or with others are other aspects. In the US, when someone moves from one state to another, they're not required to notify the US government in any way. Most states have rules about getting your vehicles licensed within a certain time frame after settling in a state, or rules about when you must acquire a driver license and/or state ID. The rules are wildly different across all fifty states, and it's not feasible to "just track" everyone since the national government has no explicit authority to. The census, however, is explicitly assigned to the federal government in the constitution.

Re: What happens if I don't fill out my census form? (2019)

#40

Post by grawprog » Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 2:09 AM UTC

I didn't fill out the last census forms in protest of the longform census that year(in Canada) that asked for what I considered to be unnecessary information I didn't wish to divulge. Nobody that lived in the house filled one out. Nothing came of it. Census people showed up at the door every day for a while, but would leave after a bunch of knocking with no answer. I do normally fill them out though. For reference Canada has similar census laws to America.