Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight • Hacker News Board

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#31

Post by projectramo » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #13

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #2

IMO there's two ways to read this: either A) this is a baldly transparent attempt to "own the libs" and punish a company that the administration sees as a threat or B) they are too incompetent to understand the technical nuances of the case and are essentially morons. Maybe both? This administration can't be thrown out on their collective asses fast enough...

Does it matter? Every time without fail when I argue on HN that government involvement in tech is usually negative I get downvoted to oblivion. But then when the same government interferes and is on the "wrong" side of popular geek opinion there is an uproar.

Wait, when people disagree with you on an issue then they downvote you.

However, when you are talking about the same government, when they agree with you, will upvote you?

This, right here, is a broken system. People should only be able to upvote or downvote another person, but not both, whenever they are talking about the same government!

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#32

Post by ajross » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

entee wrote: post #23

todd3834 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At an earlier stage in litigation, the Obama administration took a similar position, urging the Supreme Court not to accept Google's appeal. Am I understanding this correctly that this has been a bipartisan position?

Ellison hosted a big fundraiser for Trump literally yesterday and Obama regularly golfed with Ellison. I’m not usually a conspiracy theorist but it’s clear the guy is connected and it stands to reason it might influence the government position. https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/12/tru... https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/18/bar... Edit: some suggest Ellison doesn’t play golf, t…

This kind of false equivalence is what drives me nuts about the modern media environment. Presidents meet with people all the time, sometimes when playing golf. No doubt Obama had similar meetings (links or no) with Google execs on multiple occasions, right? No one cares when Trump golfs with people.

Clearly running a political fundraiser sits at a different level of influence peddling. We literally have laws to regulate that and disclose the activity (where disclosure of routine meetings are, in fact, protected by law as executive privilege)!

It's different. It's not the same. Saying "Trump did a favor because Ellison drove $2M to his campaing" has a stronger basis than "Obama did a favor because Ellison let him win at golf."

And I'll just say it: at the end of the day, people who believe "everyone is just as bad" are the ones who are likely to excuse the worst corruption in government via "well, at least it's my candidate doing the cheating".

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#33

Post by cwperkins » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #2

IMO there's two ways to read this: either A) this is a baldly transparent attempt to "own the libs" and punish a company that the administration sees as a threat or B) they are too incompetent to understand the technical nuances of the case and are essentially morons. Maybe both? This administration can't be thrown out on their collective asses fast enough...

Please elaborate on the details of the case. You seem to be keenly aware of the nuances.

I haven’t been following the case, but please let me know why you have reached the conclusions that you have.

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#34

Post by Diederich » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

entee wrote: post #23

todd3834 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At an earlier stage in litigation, the Obama administration took a similar position, urging the Supreme Court not to accept Google's appeal. Am I understanding this correctly that this has been a bipartisan position?

Ellison hosted a big fundraiser for Trump literally yesterday and Obama regularly golfed with Ellison. I’m not usually a conspiracy theorist but it’s clear the guy is connected and it stands to reason it might influence the government position. https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/12/tru... https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/politics/2020/02/18/bar... Edit: some suggest Ellison doesn’t play golf, t…

> conspiracy theorist

In my opinion, a possible connection between fundraisers/golfing and political outcomes doesn't necessarily rise to "conspiracy theorist".

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#35

Post by ajross » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #25

_ea1k wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the fundraising efforts by Ellison for the same administration supporting them in this.

From the article: >> At an earlier stage in litigation, the Obama administration took a similar position, urging the Supreme Court not to accept Google's appeal. Did Ellison do a fundraiser for Obama as well?

He did not. Ellison has been a reliable (though not particularly partisan) republican for years.

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#36

Post by bediger4000 » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

Does the Trump administration understand what this kind of law will do to all of tech?

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#37

Post by jayd16 » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

todd3834 wrote: post #8

vikingcaffiene wrote: post #2

IMO there's two ways to read this: either A) this is a baldly transparent attempt to "own the libs" and punish a company that the administration sees as a threat or B) they are too incompetent to understand the technical nuances of the case and are essentially morons. Maybe both? This administration can't be thrown out on their collective asses fast enough...

> At an earlier stage in litigation, the Obama administration took a similar position, urging the Supreme Court not to accept Google's appeal. Am I understanding this correctly that this has been a bipartisan position?

What is this even referring to? Google didn't file this petition until 2019. It had previously petitioned the Supreme Court in 2014 before Oracle's appeal. The circumstances were quite different then.

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#38

Post by kllrnohj » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #7

This is the absolute reason why Dart, Flutter and Fuchsia exist. You can now imagine that if a loss from Google in this lawsuit were to happen, it would mean royalties in the billions for Oracle which Google won't pay for, or at least for a long time for Android. So an option is to migrate the Android ecosystem onto Fuchsia to rid of the Oracle royalty fees and own the ecosystem without anyone else looking to sue you…

> So an option is to migrate the Android ecosystem onto Fuchsia to rid of the Oracle royalty fees

The better option is the one Google already did ages ago, switch to OpenJDK: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/01/android-n-switch...

Which is GPLv2 w/ classpath exception straight from Oracle. No work for app devs and no work for OEMs.

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#39

Post by quotemstr » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

Is there any doubt that this is some kind of score-settling? Republicans hate Google. I don't think people inside the SV bubble appreciate just how intense this hatred has become. You know the seething, implacable anger, that bile that comes up out of your stomach when you think of a politician you don't like? A lot of republicans feel that way about Google.

This hatred doesn't come out of nowhere. Google's leaders could have chosen to make the company neutral and tolerant. Instead, they bred a culture of political zealotry from top to bottom. The partisan hatred that the company engendered then leaked into the outside world. The inevitable result? Half of the United States power structure sees Google as an irredeemably biased political project masquerading as a tech company. Is it? Maybe not. But whether this judgement is true doesn't matter --- what matter is the perception that the company allowed its internal activists to create. It was an unforced error, and it's one that I think will become an infamous cautionary tale in the coming decades.

Lesson to corporate leaders: don't encourage politics at work; don't encourage a culture of demonizing a political faction in your home country that wins about half the time; and especially don't hold a company-wide all hands election after this faction wins the election and lament that "we lost".

Re: Trump administration backs Oracle in Google fight

#40

Post by jedieaston » Thu, Feb 20, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

bitL wrote: post #21

rvz wrote: post #7

This is the absolute reason why Dart, Flutter and Fuchsia exist. You can now imagine that if a loss from Google in this lawsuit were to happen, it would mean royalties in the billions for Oracle which Google won't pay for, or at least for a long time for Android. So an option is to migrate the Android ecosystem onto Fuchsia to rid of the Oracle royalty fees and own the ecosystem without anyone else looking to sue you…

How is Fuchsia relevant to Java API Oracle is chasing them for? Google's back up plan is Kotlin anyway; they can push new version of API that completely severs backward compatibility while providing some library for "legacy app API translation".

I thought that Kotlin required the JVM to run?