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FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

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Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#31

Post by floatingatoll »

yellowapple wrote: post #21
floatingatoll wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the reference encoder licensed under LGPLv3, I doubt any browser team will be able to incorporate this work into their product. They would need to do a full clean room reimplementation simply to study it (since GPLv3 seems unacceptable to them, and LGPLv3 can’t coexist with GPLv2, and so forth and so on). It’s really unfortunate that the FLIF team chose such a restrictive license :( EDIT: Their reference JS poly…

The decoder-only version of the reference implementation (libflif_dec) uses the Apache 2.0 license (specifically for this reason, I'd assume). Browsers shouldn't need to encode FLIF images very often, so decoder-only would be fine for that use case.

Evaluating the efficacy of the new image codec is not possible using only a decoder.

I was unable to find an APL2 JS polyfill decoder. Does one exist?

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#32

Post by andrewzah »

pnako wrote: post #30
tangm wrote: post #15

It looks like the the creator (Jon Sneyers) has since (2019) made another image format more focused on the lossy compression, FUIF[0], which itself has been subsumed by the JPEG XL format[1]. I hope the "JPEG" branding doesn't make folks think that JPEG XL isn't also a lossless format! [0] https://github.com/cloudinary/fuif [1] https://jpeg.org/jpegxl/index.html

JPEG XL is either lossy compression for large pictures, or something named by people who suck at branding.

Made by the same folks who brought you JPEG 2000. /s

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#33

Post by andrewzah »

hug wrote: post #28
pier25 wrote: post #22

They have a polyfill for browsers: https://github.com/UprootLabs/poly-flif It weights 77kB gzipped which is a no-no in my book. Jesus, my current Mithril SPA weights 37kB gzipped. Not the JS bundle, the complete application.

While weight is a factor in professional car racing, and while I've built a go-kart that is significantly lighter in weight than a professional racing car, it is not a particularly impressive achievement that I have managed to do so, and I wouldn't think to criticize a race team for the weight of their vehicle.

Good thing we’re discussing JavaScript library sizes and not cars in random contexts, then.

77kb gzipped is massive considering it’s only doing one thing. If I want my website to load in ~100 milliseconds or less (or even 1 second or less!), I absolutely do need to pay attention to all the libraries I add.

I can and do criticize software developers for making hideously bloated websites because they don’t pay attention to what they add. Not only are a lot of modern websites wasteful, they’re painful or outright useless on slow mobile connections—not a problem for software developers on fibre networks, beefy dev machines, etc.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#35

Post by thanatropism »

hug wrote: post #28
pier25 wrote: post #22

They have a polyfill for browsers: https://github.com/UprootLabs/poly-flif It weights 77kB gzipped which is a no-no in my book. Jesus, my current Mithril SPA weights 37kB gzipped. Not the JS bundle, the complete application.

While weight is a factor in professional car racing, and while I've built a go-kart that is significantly lighter in weight than a professional racing car, it is not a particularly impressive achievement that I have managed to do so, and I wouldn't think to criticize a race team for the weight of their vehicle.

Go home, GPT-2, you're drunk.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#36

Post by bawolff »

hug wrote: post #28
pier25 wrote: post #22

They have a polyfill for browsers: https://github.com/UprootLabs/poly-flif It weights 77kB gzipped which is a no-no in my book. Jesus, my current Mithril SPA weights 37kB gzipped. Not the JS bundle, the complete application.

While weight is a factor in professional car racing, and while I've built a go-kart that is significantly lighter in weight than a professional racing car, it is not a particularly impressive achievement that I have managed to do so, and I wouldn't think to criticize a race team for the weight of their vehicle.

If we are in the space of compression than i think its relavent.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#37

Post by chungy »

tangm wrote: post #15

It looks like the the creator (Jon Sneyers) has since (2019) made another image format more focused on the lossy compression, FUIF[0], which itself has been subsumed by the JPEG XL format[1]. I hope the "JPEG" branding doesn't make folks think that JPEG XL isn't also a lossless format! [0] https://github.com/cloudinary/fuif [1] https://jpeg.org/jpegxl/index.html

A reference implementation of JPEG XL is available at: https://gitlab.com/wg1/jpeg-xl

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#38

Post by twotwotwo »

tangm wrote: post #15

It looks like the the creator (Jon Sneyers) has since (2019) made another image format more focused on the lossy compression, FUIF[0], which itself has been subsumed by the JPEG XL format[1]. I hope the "JPEG" branding doesn't make folks think that JPEG XL isn't also a lossless format! [0] https://github.com/cloudinary/fuif [1] https://jpeg.org/jpegxl/index.html

JXL is an interesting standard. Integrates a recompressor that shaves ~20% off .jpgs without further loss(!), FUIF for essentially-lossless images in a progressive/interlaced mode like this, a separate lossless format, and a new lossy format with variable-sized DCTs and a bunch of other new tools (other transforms for DCT-unfriendly content, postfilter for DCT artifacts, new colorspace, chroma-from-luma...). It's intended to be royalty-free.

I'm not sure if putting it all under one standard will make it hard to adopt, and/or if AVIF (based on AV1) will just become the new open advanced image format first. Interesting to see in any case.

Brief presentation: https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/Workshops-and-Seminars/20191008...

Longer presentation with more of the rationales for choices: https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/conference-proceedings-of...

Draft standard: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/335134903_Committee...

Play in your browser: http://libwebpjs.appspot.com/jpegxl/

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#39

Post by nine_k »

sd314 wrote: post #34

Not a nice idea to do reference implementation in C++ instead of C!

One can use C++ in radically different ways.

I would appreciate a reference implementation in Rust. Or, if not intended for immediate linking, in something like OCaml or ATS. Clarity and correctness are important in a reference implementation, and they are harder to achieve using C.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#40

Post by eclipseo76 »

tangm wrote: post #15

It looks like the the creator (Jon Sneyers) has since (2019) made another image format more focused on the lossy compression, FUIF[0], which itself has been subsumed by the JPEG XL format[1]. I hope the "JPEG" branding doesn't make folks think that JPEG XL isn't also a lossless format! [0] https://github.com/cloudinary/fuif [1] https://jpeg.org/jpegxl/index.html

Last time I heard they were teaming with Google Pik for the JPEG XL format. Don't know where they are at.
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