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The Rotating Lepton Model

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Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#31

Post by gus_massa »

franki13 wrote: post #30
gus_massa wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Standard disclaimer that Physic is an experimental science and everything can change in the future.] Spin is more complicated! That the reason that force the sum of the four 1/2 spin particles to have spin 0, 1 or 2. It has a nice mathematical reason that is the SU(2) group representations. All the experiments so far agree with this rules. The rule for four 1/2 particles can be tested with electron in small molecule…

From this link https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/978-1-4614-3936-3 Neutrinos are fermions with spin 1/2 [10] and thus one may anticipate spin of 1/2 or 3/2 for composite states formed by three neutrinos. Indeed most baryons have spin 1/2 and some, as shown in Table 4.4, have spin 3/2 [10]. Several baryons are charged, e.g. the proton or the Ξ+. The differences in mass, m, from their neutral brethren (i.e. the n or the Ξo) i…

The part about the charged neutrinos is weird but not imposible (can we call it electron?). The part about the beta decay only make sense if they provide a good model for the internal structure of the proton.

I think it's an old theory from the same people, where they used three neutrinos instead of four. The old version does not break the spin rules. It's even more weird that now they added a fourth particle.

The combination of the Newtonian Gravity, with special and general relativity is weird. Those gammas are in the wrong places. I'm 99% sure it is wrong, but I should read the details carefully.

I think there is a problem with the uncertain principle because the neutrinos must be too close, and other with the Pauli exclusion principle (perhaps they solve it with the "resonance"). I'm 99% sure it is wrong, but I should read the details carefully.

There are more problems with exchange symmetry, and partiles that these theory predict nut don't appear experimentally.

The way they break the rules of spin is straightforward. As I said in a comment in other thread, it's almost ass bad as if they break the charge conservation rules. (Almost, because breaking the charge conservation rules is even worst.)

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#32

Post by franki13 »

gus_massa wrote: post #31
franki13 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From this link https://sci-hub.se/10.1007/978-1-4614-3936-3 Neutrinos are fermions with spin 1/2 [10] and thus one may anticipate spin of 1/2 or 3/2 for composite states formed by three neutrinos. Indeed most baryons have spin 1/2 and some, as shown in Table 4.4, have spin 3/2 [10]. Several baryons are charged, e.g. the proton or the Ξ+. The differences in mass, m, from their neutral brethren (i.e. the n or the Ξo) i…

The part about the charged neutrinos is weird but not imposible (can we call it electron?). The part about the beta decay only make sense if they provide a good model for the internal structure of the proton. I think it's an old theory from the same people, where they used three neutrinos instead of four. The old version does not break the spin rules. It's even more weird that now they added a fourth particle. The co…

I guess he needs a particle with the charge of the electron and the mass of the neutrino (which he chose one out of many to get his results) and other neutrinos without charge and the same mass with the previous particle. It doesn't make any real sense on scrutiny apart from some coincidences.

The rule of spin is broken with the four particles, so that model is garbage from the start.

In another paper, to justify the relativistic newtonian formula they used an analogy with general relativity, using a schwartchild effective potential with static masses (low velocities). But in general relativity you get different contributions in the stress energy tensor from relativistic particles, than static with the same enhanced relativistic mass. It's all so wrong... They don't even try to solve the problem of gravitational attrachion of particles with general relativity, i guess it's too difficult and in such scales maybe requires quantum gravity? (i don't know if i'm correct on this one)

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#33

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gus_massa wrote: post #21

They model the proton as three neutrinos rotating around a positron. These are spin 1/2, particles, so the composite particle that includes all of them must have a spin that is an integer number: 0, 1 or 2 in this case. But the proton is a 1/2 spin particle. This is a huge red flag. For comparison, in the Standard Model, the proton is made of two up quarks an one down quark [1]. Each of the has spin 1/2, and the comp…

Given that there are three flavors[1] of neutrinos, I don't think they would break Pauli exclusion.

[1] "Flavors" may not be the right word. I don't remember what the right one is at the moment.

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#34

Post by sofos123 »

Hackers you are idiots most of the proton spin does come not by adding the individual spins of neutrinos but from the orbital rotation of the neutrinos. Have you heard of the proton spin crisis...

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#36

Post by sofos123 »

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/proton-spin-myste... https://phys.org/news/2017-03-proton.html https://phys.org/news/2017-10-proton-puzzle.html RLM model by Vagenas solves the spin problem easily, some are still trying...that theory of everything based on the standard model is just for hackers... lol

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#37

Post by franki13 »

sofos123 wrote: post #36

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/proton-spin-myste... https://phys.org/news/2017-03-proton.html https://phys.org/news/2017-10-proton-puzzle.html RLM model by Vagenas solves the spin problem easily, some are still trying...that theory of everything based on the standard model is just for hackers... lol

Ok sofos, tell us how rlm model solves the spin problem of the proton easily and how the spin is conserved with 4 spin1/2 particles

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#38

Post by sofos2 »

franki13 wrote: post #37
sofos123 wrote: post #36

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/proton-spin-myste... https://phys.org/news/2017-03-proton.html https://phys.org/news/2017-10-proton-puzzle.html RLM model by Vagenas solves the spin problem easily, some are still trying...that theory of everything based on the standard model is just for hackers... lol

Ok sofos, tell us how rlm model solves the spin problem of the proton easily and how the spin is conserved with 4 spin1/2 particles

The orbital angular momentum of the spinning fermions neutrinos has to be taken into account. You can not simply add up fermion spins. Read about the proton spin crisis.

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#39

Post by sofos2 »

sofos2 wrote: post #38
franki13 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok sofos, tell us how rlm model solves the spin problem of the proton easily and how the spin is conserved with 4 spin1/2 particles

The orbital angular momentum of the spinning fermions neutrinos has to be taken into account. You can not simply add up fermion spins. Read about the proton spin crisis.

I think there is a funtamental test here how the neutron gets its magnetic moment. Based on RLM the spinning neutrinos have electric dipoles and magnetic moments how to neutrino magnetic moments scale up with relativistic mass? I could accept electric dipoles arising but how can you get the magnetic moment of a neutron which is 1.93μN almost twice the nuclear magneton.

Re: The Rotating Lepton Model

#40

Post by franki13 »

sofos2 wrote: post #39
sofos2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The orbital angular momentum of the spinning fermions neutrinos has to be taken into account. You can not simply add up fermion spins. Read about the proton spin crisis.

I think there is a funtamental test here how the neutron gets its magnetic moment. Based on RLM the spinning neutrinos have electric dipoles and magnetic moments how to neutrino magnetic moments scale up with relativistic mass? I could accept electric dipoles arising but how can you get the magnetic moment of a neutron which is 1.93μN almost twice the nuclear magneton.

Ok, there are many serious questions here, but really now, even with the proton crisis and all that stuff, how is the vagenas model useful ? There is no known mechanism for gravity in such scales, and he abuses relativity, assymetrical rotating gravitational objects emit gravitational radiation so they are not stable, the neutrino mass he uses is his own choice since we don't know it yet and there is so much experimental stuff from the detection of quarks and the standard model that i dont really think it can really match up to them. In the end with the way he uses relativity and neutrino masses you can deduct any number you want with slight changes of one or the other, how is that helpful ? We already know all the stuff he tries to deduce. Also there is the experimental verification of Higgs and all that..
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