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UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

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Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#31

Post by iguy »

scythe wrote: post #18
sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what many overlook is many of these particles have nothing to do with emissions. Brake pads and tires turn to dust. So too bits of the road surface are slowly converted to fine particulates. Converting everyone to autodrive teslas powered by fusion reactors wont stop rubber from meeting asphalt. (Switching to manual transmissions would probably reduce the brake dust. Id like to see if european roads suffer as muc…

From slide 17 here you can see that the switch from fuelled to electric vehicles is expected to decrease particulates by 60-80% from 2000 to 2040: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-09/documents... This doesn’t seem like a trivial improvement. Particulates are not the only toxic component of exhaust either; electric cars should produce no NOx, CO or O3 which is a big improvement. It’s also worth noting t…

Thanks, and good point. It might not be very hard to reduce brake dust dramatically, just put a vacuum cleaner in your frunk right?

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#32

Post by sandworm101 »

murkt wrote: post #16
mrob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching to electric vehicles would reduce brake dust even more, because they use regenerative breaking to avoid using the break pads when possible.

Additionally, roads can be designed in a way that calms vehicle movement instead of accelerate-brake cycle. For example, narrower roads with curves instead of wide straight roads with speed bumps near pedestrian crossings.

Curves are just accelleration in a different direction. Tires would degrade just as quickly.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#33

Post by sandworm101 »

Jamwinner wrote: post #25
Scoundreller wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least newer automatics finally do engine braking as well.

As well as all cars with manual transmissions.

"Engine braking" isn't just letting the engine spin down at 0 throttle. Propper engine braking, aka "Jake brake", is letting the engine spin at 100% throttle but zero fuel input (and some valve trickery). This lets air in to be compressed, releasing it before the down stroke of the piston. No car does that. It is a separate installed system on trucks. It can be almost as powerful as the engine. In a car, it could handle all but emergency braking.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_release_engine_b...

When you hear a truck making popping noises like a machine gun, that's the Jake brake in action.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#34

Post by dsfyu404ed »

mrob wrote: post #15
sandworm101 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what many overlook is many of these particles have nothing to do with emissions. Brake pads and tires turn to dust. So too bits of the road surface are slowly converted to fine particulates. Converting everyone to autodrive teslas powered by fusion reactors wont stop rubber from meeting asphalt. (Switching to manual transmissions would probably reduce the brake dust. Id like to see if european roads suffer as muc…

Switching to electric vehicles would reduce brake dust even more, because they use regenerative breaking to avoid using the break pads when possible.

A set of pads typically lasts about as long as a set of tires (at the very least they're within a factor of two of each other). Compare relative volumes of materials. Brake dust is always going to be a much smaller source of particulate matter in the air than tire dust.

FWIW if the fumes/particulate from burning them are any indication tires are probably way nastier than brakes.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#35

Post by pkulak »

KallDrexx wrote: post #20
Brakenshire wrote: post #12

Anyone living near a busy road is swimming in particulate matter on the micrometre and nanometre scale, and particles on that scale bypass the normal defences, get into the blood stream and saturate the body. Small particles can even move down nerves, it’s really not surprising that long term exposure causes neurological problems.

I'm curious how different living next to a highway is to living in a dense urban city though (like NYC) and if it's different why? In either case you have a lot of car traffic (probably closer to your place of residence than people that live close to a highway) Not to mention if you live in a dense urban city then you will spend more time walking directly next to traffic.

Whatever the effect, it's at least getting better. As someone who rides a bike to work every day on urban roads that are usually congested, the recent rise of hybrids, and even just cars with auto start-stop systems, has been a blessing. It used to be that driving next to a line of stopped cars was a nightmare, but now at least half of them have their engines off, if they have an engine at all.

Moving an automobile a couple miles in a dense urban environment at very slow speeds shouldn't require much energy, at least from a pure physics standpoint.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#36

Post by DenisM »

woodpanel wrote: post #26
mrob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching to electric vehicles would reduce brake dust even more, because they use regenerative breaking to avoid using the break pads when possible.

while switching to electric vehicles likely reduces break dust, such switch would simultaneously increase dust from tires, since increased acceleration. The latter being already 80% of urban "particulate matter" pollution.

I don’t think Nissan Leaf is particularly good at neck-breaking acceleration, and it probably outnumbers the drag-racing Teslas. Even then, a Tesla isn’t particularly speedy in traffic.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#37

Post by derefr »

sandworm101 wrote: post #13
Brakenshire wrote: post #12

Anyone living near a busy road is swimming in particulate matter on the micrometre and nanometre scale, and particles on that scale bypass the normal defences, get into the blood stream and saturate the body. Small particles can even move down nerves, it’s really not surprising that long term exposure causes neurological problems.

And what many overlook is many of these particles have nothing to do with emissions. Brake pads and tires turn to dust. So too bits of the road surface are slowly converted to fine particulates. Converting everyone to autodrive teslas powered by fusion reactors wont stop rubber from meeting asphalt. (Switching to manual transmissions would probably reduce the brake dust. Id like to see if european roads suffer as muc…

Tangential question: do trains produce fine particulates where their wheels meet the rail? I.e. is it bad to live near a train (or subway!) line?

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#38

Post by samatman »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #34
mrob wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switching to electric vehicles would reduce brake dust even more, because they use regenerative breaking to avoid using the break pads when possible.

A set of pads typically lasts about as long as a set of tires (at the very least they're within a factor of two of each other). Compare relative volumes of materials. Brake dust is always going to be a much smaller source of particulate matter in the air than tire dust. FWIW if the fumes/particulate from burning them are any indication tires are probably way nastier than brakes.

First paragraph is perfectly reasonable.

Second paragraph, though: I've never been around a brake pad fire, but I'd rather breathe vulcanized rubber than "metal shavings of copper, steel, graphite, and brass bonded with resin":

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/what-are-brake-pads-mad...

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#39

Post by Geeflow »

DenisM wrote: post #36
woodpanel wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

while switching to electric vehicles likely reduces break dust, such switch would simultaneously increase dust from tires, since increased acceleration. The latter being already 80% of urban "particulate matter" pollution.

I don’t think Nissan Leaf is particularly good at neck-breaking acceleration, and it probably outnumbers the drag-racing Teslas. Even then, a Tesla isn’t particularly speedy in traffic.

I often drive a Renault Zoe which also isn't a sports car. I frequently leave sports cars behind at the traffic light. From 0-30 kph even the small/cheap electric cars are sport cars. And it is terribly tempting to develop a pedal-to-the-metal habit. So I assume tire dust will increase significantly in the cities.

Re: UBC study links living near highways to risk of neurological disorders

#40

Post by derefr »

ggm wrote: post #2

Is it not also likely proximity to green plants reduces stress, and blood pressure? And mood improvement might shave years off exposure of risk to Parkinson's insidious side effects on mood leading to later or post death (postmortem exam) diagnosis.

Interstate highways are included in the category of “highways”, and are often just a road running through the middle of green space like forest. It wouldn’t really make sense to claim that “living near highways” does X unless it was still true even for living near such a forested interstate highway.
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