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F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

reuters.com

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Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#31

Post by stan_rogers »

wolfgke wrote: post #27
ptero wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real work is (comparably) cheap. With F35 budget well over a trillion dollars this is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than needed to fund maximum number of projects Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. My 2c.

> Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. My 2c. Isn't the idea of skunkwork projects exactly to avoid bureaucratic waste for the sake of radical innovation?! Let me give three quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Skunkworks_projec... : "A skunkworks project is a project developed by a relatively small and loosely structured group of people…

Yes, and that's exactly what the post you are responding to said. Read it again: it says that the money is far more than skunkworks could possibly spend, so it's far more likely that the evaporating money is being boiled away by ordinary bureaucratic waste with nothing to show for it.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#34

Post by Patient0 »

mikorym wrote: post #29
divbyzer0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(with my tin-foil hat securely fastened) I've always had a suspicion that the generous piles of cash thrown at the F-35 program was really going to two programs: 1) A well-publicised cover (F-35) 2) A secret Skunk Works project like F-117, SR-71 But a corporate welfare program as you suggest is more likely.

This is always an exciting question... You know, it's nice to daydream about all kinds of secret and mysterious projects. But I think another question is more about necessity, and I think necessity is what fuels a lot of politics around these kind of military projects. People pull towards both extremes and end up somewhere in the middle, which is maybe the mean of perceived necessity. If the US is clever (NSA: this i…

nitpick: in this context, you would want to use the word "cue" not "queue". "cue" => signal for an actor to go on stage or whatever. "queue" => orderly line of people waiting to buy a movie ticket.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#35

Post by wolfgke »

stan_rogers wrote: post #31
wolfgke wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. My 2c. Isn't the idea of skunkwork projects exactly to avoid bureaucratic waste for the sake of radical innovation?! Let me give three quotes from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Skunkworks_projec... : "A skunkworks project is a project developed by a relatively small and loosely structured group of people…

Yes, and that's exactly what the post you are responding to said. Read it again: it says that the money is far more than skunkworks could possibly spend, so it's far more likely that the evaporating money is being boiled away by ordinary bureaucratic waste with nothing to show for it.

I am no native speaker of English, but at

> Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output.

to me, "it" seems to refer to "[s]kunk work" and referring to skunk work with respect to "max manpower" does not sound like skunk work to me, but throwing lots of cooperate ressources (instead of a small elite team) at the project.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#36

Post by mkl »

wolfgke wrote: post #35
stan_rogers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's exactly what the post you are responding to said. Read it again: it says that the money is far more than skunkworks could possibly spend, so it's far more likely that the evaporating money is being boiled away by ordinary bureaucratic waste with nothing to show for it.

I am no native speaker of English, but at > Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. to me, "it" seems to refer to "[s]kunk work" and referring to skunk work with respect to "max manpower" does not sound like skunk work to me, but throwing lots of cooperate ressources (instead of a small elite team) at the project.

"It" here refers to "F35 budget". The punctuation is not ideal; I think it would be clearer something like this:

> With the F35 budget well over a trillion dollars (this is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than needed to fund maximum number of projects Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower), it is a bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#37

Post by stan_rogers »

wolfgke wrote: post #35
stan_rogers wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's exactly what the post you are responding to said. Read it again: it says that the money is far more than skunkworks could possibly spend, so it's far more likely that the evaporating money is being boiled away by ordinary bureaucratic waste with nothing to show for it.

I am no native speaker of English, but at > Skunk works can sustain, at max manpower. It is bureaucratic waste with minimum productive output. to me, "it" seems to refer to "[s]kunk work" and referring to skunk work with respect to "max manpower" does not sound like skunk work to me, but throwing lots of cooperate ressources (instead of a small elite team) at the project.

The word "Skunk" does not start a new sentence. It is in the middle of this phrase: "this is 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than needed to fund maximum number of projects Skunk works can sustain". I'll agree that the punctuation isn't ideal; that phrase should have been preceded by a comma.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#38

Post by imtringued »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #14
yborg wrote: post #6

The functioning or non-functioning of the logistics system for the F-35 is largely irrelevant, as just demonstrated Lockheed is paid whether it works or not; and non-functioning is much safer for the program, as non-flying F-35s are safe from combat and accidents. In fact, low availability just provides an excuse for the Air Force to demand additional budget for aircraft. This isn't so much a combat system as a corpo…

> airpower projection is via unmanned systems I'm unconvinced by this assessment, for one they haven't had symmetrical warfare in a long time and a pilot is way harder to jam. for another long range laser ciws systems are getting more and more effective and if you armor cheap unmanned system they stop being cheap. but ultimately they have limited payload option and you can always pack more countermeasures than the en…

Honestly non fully autonomous UAVs are going to drop like flies if they encounter a F-35. People seem to fail to understand that the F-35 is also an advanced ECM platform. What is that drone going to do once its connection to the remote base is cut?

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#39

Post by Yizahi »

chinathrow wrote: post #4
pixelface wrote: post #3

"ODIN will be based in the cloud and designed to deliver data in near real time on aircraft and system performance under heightened cyber security provisions, Lord said. " heart warming to see us draw ever closer to the cyberpunk dystopia of my childhood dreams.

Wait till you learn that some F-16s run with Kubernetes on board. https://thenewstack.io/how-the-u-s-air-force-deployed-kubern... "“One point for the team was to demonstrate that it could be done,” Chaillan said. He challenged the Air Force and its partners to get Kubernetes up and running on a jet in 45 days, and while that was as difficult as it sounds, the team met the goal and F-16s are now running three concurre…

Oh no, oh no no no... Please tell me you are joking. The good news though is that World War III is officially cancelled now. If anyone will ever decide to start it, they would probably debug crashing pods and spaghetti code in startup scripts for years afterwards.

Re: F-35 logistics system to be reinvented and renamed, official says

#40

Post by imtringued »

lowdose wrote: post #25
jmnicolas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because there are tons of censors on modern jets and you need something to manage them. However I wouldn't use a civilian made system for this, you're going to spend the rest of the program lifetime correcting security holes.

Because civilian made is not invented here?

I don't understand how you can even imply that it's because of a stupid reason like that.

No the reason is that there are fundamental differences in the risk profile of the civilian and military sector.

Adversaries will insert spies in mission critical projects if they are publicly accessible. Once the main contributors stop maintaining the project the military will have to hire people and train them for maintenance but all the people that can train the replacements have already left. The military has to verify every single line of code every time the code base is updated.

All of these problems don't exist in projects where the full life cycle is taken care of by the military.

The internet of things suffers from the same problems. Once you are dependent on a vendor and that vendor shuts down or cancels a product you're stuck with a lot of paperweights. The vendor is usually not acting in your interest.

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