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Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

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Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#31

Post by shadow-banned »

paxys wrote: post #3

On one hand, this is a great effort and I'm sure will help commuters a ton. But on the other, why on earth does the bay area have 31+ different transit agencies??

The Bay Area (once a generation of boomers passes) will HAVE to become more like NYC - with "cities" (using that term loosely for places like Cupertino, Mountain View etc as these are really sterile suburbs with trip malls) becoming more like "boroughs" with an overarching authority.

We're talking a 30 year timeline, though.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#32

Post by iudqnolq »

derefr wrote: post #29
BorgHunter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been thinking the past couple of years you should be able to vote in local elections in the area you work in, even if you don’t live there. In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city, where suburban commuter interests like parking override the interests of the actual residents. The 1998 amalgamation of Toronto is a good example of this happenin…

> In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city Then perhaps "urban policy" is an unnatural category, combining conflicting interests. Why not just have two municipal governments—one elected by those whose business interests lie within the city, which would be in charge of the city's business policy (e.g. corporate taxe and grants, arterial infrastructur…

What happens when the business govt wants low corp tax, and the residents govt wants high corp tax to fund programs? What happens when they disagree over zoning, ie which side gets to build somewhere?

I don't think you can segment that way.

One related idea that might work a little better (I think it comes from libertarian circles, can't remember exactly where) is representation by profession. So eg x% of the legislature is elected by residents, and other percentages by other groups like business people.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#33

Post by zpallin »

gonehome wrote: post #30
opportune wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it actually worked well, people might use it, especially the undesirables. It’s also because the Bay Area is stupidly split up into dozens and dozens of small-medium sized municipalities spread over multiple counties. So every little group acts in their own locally optimal, shortsighted interests. Most of the people affected worst by the lack of public transportation and housing can’t vote in the areas that can ac…

Aren't there enough of us to leverage power by voting as a block? I know Palo Alto Forward was trying to do this a while back - it'd be nice if we could block vote in people that could massively upzone housing (or make whatever change is necessary to increase housing supply). Myself and a lot of my friends live in these towns with roommates - I'd think if there was a clear group to vote for and clear policy to push t…

You should look into supporting https://www.transformca.org which works with Bay Area governments already to solve transportation policy. They have already contributed immensely to transportation accessibility in the region, and have been at the forefront of the BRT fight, but it's an uphill battle and they need more support.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#34

Post by zpallin »

forwhomst wrote: post #6
paxys wrote: post #3

On one hand, this is a great effort and I'm sure will help commuters a ton. But on the other, why on earth does the bay area have 31+ different transit agencies??

To fix this support https://www.seamlessbayarea.org/

Or, perhaps https://www.transformca.org which already has a track record of working with local governments and successfully implementing transit policy.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#35

Post by dsfyu404ed »

BorgHunter wrote: post #17
opportune wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it actually worked well, people might use it, especially the undesirables. It’s also because the Bay Area is stupidly split up into dozens and dozens of small-medium sized municipalities spread over multiple counties. So every little group acts in their own locally optimal, shortsighted interests. Most of the people affected worst by the lack of public transportation and housing can’t vote in the areas that can ac…

> I’ve been thinking the past couple of years you should be able to vote in local elections in the area you work in, even if you don’t live there. In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city, where suburban commuter interests like parking override the interests of the actual residents. The 1998 amalgamation of Toronto is a good example of this happenin…

Regional transit policy needs to be what's best for the region. You can't let city specific special interests stall that because it does not work out well in the long term.

Look at Boston. They canned I695 to stop a couple neighborhoods from being demolished and in doing so basically required all the major surface roads to handle significant commuter traffic (killing how many people over the years?) because they became the de-facto main arteries and horribly compromised future subway lines at the same time (in addition to a laundry list of other negative downstream effects).

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#36

Post by deathanatos »

unlinked_dll wrote: post #28
paxys wrote: post #3

On one hand, this is a great effort and I'm sure will help commuters a ton. But on the other, why on earth does the bay area have 31+ different transit agencies??

- Nine counties - 7,000m^2 - 7.75 million people - 101 municipal governments Shocking that we only have 31+ transit agencies. The place is dense!

It's a lot larger than 7,000m^2 :)

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#37

Post by aftbit »

I just tried to sign up and got directed here: https://511.org/open-data/transit

It looks like the bulk data feeds are available but the APIs are not. I am particularly interested in:

    Real-time Vehicle Monitoring (SIRI)
    Real-time Vehicle Monitoring API provides information about current location and expected activities of a vehicle in XML and JSON formats.

    Endpoint: http://api.511.org/transit/TBD
    Allowable parameters: api_key (mandatory) and TBD
Also, looks like there's an error in "GTFS-Realtime Vehicle Positions" description - it claims:

    GTFS-Realtime Trip Updates provides real-time updates on the vehicle positions for an agency in the Protocol Buffer format.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#38

Post by MereInterest »

derefr wrote: post #29
BorgHunter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been thinking the past couple of years you should be able to vote in local elections in the area you work in, even if you don’t live there. In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city, where suburban commuter interests like parking override the interests of the actual residents. The 1998 amalgamation of Toronto is a good example of this happenin…

> In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city Then perhaps "urban policy" is an unnatural category, combining conflicting interests. Why not just have two municipal governments—one elected by those whose business interests lie within the city, which would be in charge of the city's business policy (e.g. corporate taxe and grants, arterial infrastructur…

Because there is no division whatsoever between the policies that those groups may apply.

* Should a lot be used to build a park or a parking lot? The park is advantageous to the school next door, so it is a civic issue. The parking lot is advantageous to the businesses nearby, so it is a business issue.

* Arterial infrastructure as purely business? Utter nonsense. Placing a highway means that all houses within a block are now significantly noisier, a civic issue. It decreases walkability, as there is now one direction that cannot be walked, unless you take a mile-long detour.

* Residential zoning a purely civic issue? Nonsense. How would you ensure that people are close enough to reach a grocery store? How could you have mixed-used development, where the ground floor are shops and the higher floors are residential?

The only way this idea makes sense is if a city has already decided to separate out business and civic areas, which requires a significant investment into car-only infrastructure.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#39

Post by mehhh »

iudqnolq wrote: post #32
derefr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city Then perhaps "urban policy" is an unnatural category, combining conflicting interests. Why not just have two municipal governments—one elected by those whose business interests lie within the city, which would be in charge of the city's business policy (e.g. corporate taxe and grants, arterial infrastructur…

What happens when the business govt wants low corp tax, and the residents govt wants high corp tax to fund programs? What happens when they disagree over zoning, ie which side gets to build somewhere? I don't think you can segment that way. One related idea that might work a little better (I think it comes from libertarian circles, can't remember exactly where) is representation by profession. So eg x % of the legisl…

Representation by industry has worked really poorly for Hong Kong, its a key part of why they have the majority of thr population protesting and demanding real democracy, not the corporate controlled legislature that currently presides over HK.

Re: Bay Area Regional GTFS Feed: 31 transit agency feeds together in one API

#40

Post by mehhh »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #35
BorgHunter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve been thinking the past couple of years you should be able to vote in local elections in the area you work in, even if you don’t live there. In many areas this would effectively lead to the suburbs being able to dictate urban policy to the inner city, where suburban commuter interests like parking override the interests of the actual residents. The 1998 amalgamation of Toronto is a good example of this happenin…

Regional transit policy needs to be what's best for the region. You can't let city specific special interests stall that because it does not work out well in the long term. Look at Boston. They canned I695 to stop a couple neighborhoods from being demolished and in doing so basically required all the major surface roads to handle significant commuter traffic (killing how many people over the years?) because they beca…

Think of all the people who live closer to the urban core in Boston now, due to this decision not making long distance commuting easier.

Portland started ripping out freeways after I-205 destroyed multiple neighborhoods, and Seattlites organized to stop the central district freeway after watching I-5 vivisect the city, paving parks and neighborhoods.

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