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New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

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Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#31

Post by whatshisface »

atonse wrote: post #25
brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor. So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that we…

The NSA has a history of being so offence-focused that it wouldn't be very wise to trust them.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#32

Post by dclusin »

supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

The post office used to offer free checking accounts and basic banking services. They should reintroduce that with updated digital services as well.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#33

Post by chimeracoder »

supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

> Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write,

Checks are increasingly rare in the US as well. Ask someone under the age of 25 how often they write a physical check to someone who isn't their landlord. (And even many landlords are starting to accept other forms of payment these days).

Personally, I don't think I've written a physical check in at least five years, except to my superintendent (holiday gift - I don't want to send cash by mail, and it's the one time that a physical check is actually the most convenient way to pay someone).

> the scams we endure with mistaken payments / withdrawals without our knowledge

SEPA, which is what is used in Europe, is actually vulnerable to mistaken payments and similar scams as well. It's faster than ACH, but it's just as easy to send money to the wrong recipient (and just as difficult to rectify if that happens).

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#34

Post by vraivroo »

miohtama wrote: post #12
supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

If you take away profits from banks for processing your transactions it is called socialism? Half trolling. Single Euro Payment Area wire transfers are always free, by the law. Naturally banks need to make profit, but it is prices little bit more transparently as monthly fees.

No need to be flippant, it IS socialism. As in, the payment network ought to be socialized. The opposite being privatized.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#35

Post by ethanbond »

whatshisface wrote: post #31
atonse wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor. So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that we…

The NSA has a history of being so offence-focused that it wouldn't be very wise to trust them.

Alternatively, it has a public reputation of being extremely offense-focused.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#36

Post by vraivroo »

brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

> If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster.

This is a common trope propagated by big-business interests, but it's not borne out by evidence. Giant corporations have proven remarkably apt at being hacked and leaking private data.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#37

Post by refurb »

atonse wrote: post #25
brenden2 wrote: post #4

Generally seems like a good idea, minus the part about it being state owned and operated. If it's operated by the state, it will probably be a disaster. Many governments can barely keep their Windows machines up to date, leading to ransomware attacks. It would be a shame if people's money were held hostage for ransom.

I love how we say this with a straight face and ignore the fact that the best hackers _anywhere_ are mostly currently or formerly employed/trained by the government: NSA, FBI, same with Israeli hackers trained by the IDF, Russian and Chinese hackers, pretty much everyone is a current or former state actor. So yeah I'd trust NSA lending its talent to securing our payments infrastructure over some of the people that we…

I somehow doubt the NSA would be the ones building it. It would probably be farmed out by the govt like the ACA website.

I agree it would be terrible if the govt ran it, but would make sense is for the govt to actually plan it and put regulations around it. Provide a framework for private companies to work off of.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#38

Post by sct202 »

dclusin wrote: post #32
supernova87a wrote: post #3

The piecemeal attempts to create a rational payments system are getting to the point where the Fed just needs to acknowledge the need for a free/secure/unified infrastructure run and regulated by the government. They are starting to do this (Fed real time payment + settlement system) but not fast enough. Other countries laugh at us when we talk about the checks we have to write, the scams we endure with mistaken paym…

The post office used to offer free checking accounts and basic banking services. They should reintroduce that with updated digital services as well.

I can only speak about my local post office, but I can't imagine wanting to deal with their customer service if anything were to happen to my money.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#39

Post by yohannparis »

xwdv wrote: post #22
thatfrenchguy wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope in other countries you're insured on your debit card as well

Then who cares if it leaves your sight? Why bring a card processor all the way to my table? I doubt they are that well insured.

Reminded me the first time in the USA, when the waiter ask how I will pay my meal, I said VISA, and he just waited here. I said I need the card processor, and he explained to me that, no, he will take my credit card in the back and to trust him to not steal from me... It's an insane process.

Re: New York is proposing the creation of a 'public Venmo'

#40

Post by chimeracoder »

atonse wrote: post #29
brenden2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully doubt many talented folks are giving up $500k+/year jobs to work for Uncle Sam at below market rates.

No it's the opposite. A lot of people getting $500k were trained by Uncle Sam and left. My point was that you can't say the government would mess it up when the government (really, many governments as I outlined above) has done a phenomenal job of training many of our best private sector hackers.

> My point was that you can't say the government would mess it up when the government (really, many governments as I outlined above) has done a phenomenal job of training many of our best private sector hackers.

That's very different from saying that the government's core competencies include developing and operating secure consumer-facing web services that are also convenient to use.

There's a very big difference between having the raw resources and actually executing.

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