Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days • Hacker News Board

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#31

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:37 AM UTC

huhtenberg wrote: post #28

wolco wrote: post #5

Does someone know if insiders are releasing the cracks or are these cracking groups independent?

Denuvo is based on VMProtect, at least in part, which implements DRM through virtualization and encryption of the original code. Since it takes days to "crack Denuvo", I'm guessing they are cracking the encryption key or doing some sort of statistical reassembly of the raw code from a sample base. In either case it doesn't sound like there are any insiders involved, no. https://vmpsoft.com/ The back story is that at…

Is it based on vmprotect? I thought it can just be combined with it. There are games that use both.

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#32

Post by halfdan » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:40 AM UTC

Certhas wrote: post #25

tomc1985 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that number is far lower... like 95% PC Gaming may be mainstream now but in its nerdier days awareness of cracking was quite high... and I imagine it still is among demographics that cannot afford to plunk down $60 for the latest whatever-they-want

Awareness of cracking is high, but if you own a PC that can play these games you can afford 60$ to pay for the game. Or you can just wait a little and get one of the millions of games on Steam for approximately no money.

People can easily spend their entire money on a new PC and then not have the money to buy games.

You'd be surprised how many people with iPhones shoplift clothes worth much less than $60

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#33

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:40 AM UTC

Given the large number or urban legends about Denuvo I can only assume it’s a pain for the cracking community and given how widespread it is, it probably helps publishers.

Average cracking times are still way above 30 days which is the most crucial period.

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#34

Post by dmos62 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:42 AM UTC

qazpot wrote: post #2

It is still profitable to add Denuvo for game publishers, because most sales happen in the first week.

I personally have absolutely no problem waiting a few months. Sometimes I wait for far longer, because I'm in no hurry and because there's a chance of the game's rough edges being ironed out during that time.

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#35

Post by p0nce » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 10:46 AM UTC

sadmann1 wrote: post #7

I find the dynamic between passionate hackers doing it for free against paid DRM writers to be very interesting, gets to show you how passion for problem solving can sometimes trump people writing software for money no matter the money involved

Crackers also do it for money

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#36

Post by tapland » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:03 AM UTC

Certhas wrote: post #25

tomc1985 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that number is far lower... like 95% PC Gaming may be mainstream now but in its nerdier days awareness of cracking was quite high... and I imagine it still is among demographics that cannot afford to plunk down $60 for the latest whatever-they-want

Awareness of cracking is high, but if you own a PC that can play these games you can afford 60$ to pay for the game. Or you can just wait a little and get one of the millions of games on Steam for approximately no money.

I paid less than 20x that for the PC I run, that I bought 8 years ago. One single $60 title per year would add 1/3 to the total cost.

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#37

Post by SCdF » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:17 AM UTC

karlkloss wrote: post #12

The thing is, this DRM stuff causes a lot of problems, like performance loss and even crashes. Therefore even honest buyers use the cracks, to get rid of it. Some people even wait until the game appears DRM-free on GOG, because of this.

Isn't "a lot of problems" somewhat of an exaggeration? I don't like DRM conceptually any more than I imagine most people do, but hasn't most people's ire with it been reddit-level sleuthing / whinging?

I have seen evidence that heavy DRM (Denuvo I think, specifically) caused increased loading times.

Apart from that, every time someone tries to prove there is any other difference with any measure of scientific rigour they find no statistically differences.

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#38

Post by fxtentacle » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

I think the 75 days is mostly due to games that nobody cares about. High profile games tend to be cracked within hours or days. For example, Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order was already cracked by the time that my favorite gaming magazine printed their launch review.

https://iscracked.info/is-star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-cracke...

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#39

Post by tambre » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:22 AM UTC

SCdF wrote: post #37

karlkloss wrote: post #12

The thing is, this DRM stuff causes a lot of problems, like performance loss and even crashes. Therefore even honest buyers use the cracks, to get rid of it. Some people even wait until the game appears DRM-free on GOG, because of this.

Isn't "a lot of problems" somewhat of an exaggeration? I don't like DRM conceptually any more than I imagine most people do, but hasn't most people's ire with it been reddit-level sleuthing / whinging? I have seen evidence that heavy DRM (Denuvo I think, specifically) caused increased loading times. Apart from that, every time someone tries to prove there is any other difference with any measure of scientific rigour…

Overlord Gaming has done significant benchmarking with Denuvo and after the developer removed Denuvo. There's one on loading times [0]. And others on performance and disk size.

Loading times obviously varied per game, but the differences for most games were pretty significant.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByfLg9wGB4o

Re: Average Denuvo cracking time is now 75 days

#40

Post by SCdF » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 11:24 AM UTC

sadmann1 wrote: post #7

I find the dynamic between passionate hackers doing it for free against paid DRM writers to be very interesting, gets to show you how passion for problem solving can sometimes trump people writing software for money no matter the money involved

Devs keep using denuvo though, precisely because crackers aren't trumping the denuvo devs.

Like, everything gets cracked at some point, that's not a failure. Denuvo holds up for months, and games are like movies in the sense that the opening week is really important, then everything trails off from there.