Cryptocurrency in the 2020s • Hacker News Board

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#31

Post by v64 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

v64 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand where the perception comes from that this technology is only useful for laundering and speculation. Certainly it is currently being used for those purposes. But to say there is no imaginable use outside of that seems unwarranted. I've commented in the past here that the use of public blockchains to automate the functions of clearinghouses and escrow services will be a huge cost reduction f…

> If you look at what MakerDAO is doing with the Dai stablecoin, they've proven that it's possible to create a synthetic asset closely pegged to the dollar purely through financial incentives, and they did it all just using Ethereum v1. A holder of Dai can earn 4% APY through a Dai Savings Account, and a vote is currently in place to raise the rate to 6%. >I personally find it incredible that an asset exists on the b…

The complete functioning of the MakerDAO system is publicly documented here [1] and here [2]. Feel free to peruse the documentation and point out which parts seem unbelievable. The system is currently live and I hold a Dai Savings Account and can attest I've been paid according to the system's documentation.

[1] https://community-development.makerdao.com/makerdao-mcd-faqs

[2] https://docs.makerdao.com/

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#32

Post by Geee » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:04 PM UTC

jrimbault wrote: post #14

I was thinking with some friends recently (new year's eve) : considering a bitcoin model with a fixed finite amount of currency, won't every coin be lost at some point due to storage failure/lost keys/etc ? Statistically ? And rather sooner than later, if my thinking is right ? Like the birthday problem ? There is a maximum of 21x10^6 bitcoins, imagining a 0.01 chance of losing 1 bitcoin/day ?

Yes, but every bitcoin is divided into 100000000 satoshis, and it's possible to add even smaller units in the future.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#33

Post by BookmarkSaver » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

v64 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand where the perception comes from that this technology is only useful for laundering and speculation. Certainly it is currently being used for those purposes. But to say there is no imaginable use outside of that seems unwarranted. I've commented in the past here that the use of public blockchains to automate the functions of clearinghouses and escrow services will be a huge cost reduction f…

> If you look at what MakerDAO is doing with the Dai stablecoin, they've proven that it's possible to create a synthetic asset closely pegged to the dollar purely through financial incentives, and they did it all just using Ethereum v1. A holder of Dai can earn 4% APY through a Dai Savings Account, and a vote is currently in place to raise the rate to 6%. >I personally find it incredible that an asset exists on the b…

I can easily believe it. I believe there was another famous pre-crypto version of this run by a guy... Madoff or something? I wonder how that's going today.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#34

Post by Lerc » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

>Olaf Carlson-Wee and Balaji Srinivasan estimate that at a price of $200,000 per Bitcoin, more than half the world’s billionaires will be from cryptocurrency

This misses a key piece of information. They take the price as an an assumption for their argument, but that is insufficient to draw this conclusion. When Bitcoin reaches $200,000 is also a factor.

The worlds existing billionaires will not sit still. If it takes 70 years then it would be pretty easy to make better money elsewhere. I have no idea if or when it will happen. I'm inclined to think on average it will increase at a decreasing rate.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#35

Post by sincerely » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:06 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #27

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #7

Consider the source, right? How many people without a large vested interest in the propagation and uptake of cryptocurrency consider further growth likely? My guess is that governments will more and more realize that the main utility of blockchains is money laundering and speculation. As has been remarked over and over again, they don't solve any above board problem more efficiently or with lower expense than existin…

Exactly. It has been 10+ years since the Bitcoin paper. No cryptocurrency has significant consumer adoption. [1], [2] Except for light financial crime (ransomware, money laundering, gambling, theft, etc), it has no demonstrated advantage over alternative technologies. I don't think it will go away, any more than Ponzi and Make Money Fast schemes have gone away. But like you, I expect it will fade into the background…

>Except for light financial crime (ransomware, money laundering, gambling, theft, etc), it has no demonstrated advantage over alternative technologies.

I know this is a crime, but it's not a financial crime: cryptocurrency has HUGE advantages over alternative tech for buying drugs online.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#36

Post by rolltiide » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:07 PM UTC

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #7

Consider the source, right? How many people without a large vested interest in the propagation and uptake of cryptocurrency consider further growth likely? My guess is that governments will more and more realize that the main utility of blockchains is money laundering and speculation. As has been remarked over and over again, they don't solve any above board problem more efficiently or with lower expense than existin…

> Consider the source, right? How many people without a large vested interest in the propagation and uptake of cryptocurrency consider further growth likely?

So 90% of this post's accuracy is unchanged whether the CEO of Coinbase was the CEO of Coinbase or not. Lets look at some of the points:

People are working on removing the surveillance aspect of cryptocurrencies. thats a truth that has nothing to do with adoption.

People are working on making them faster. that's a truth that has nothing to do with adoption.

The Chinese Government has said they will a central bank digital asset for currency. that's a truth that has nothing to do with bagholding other cryptocurrencies

Every industry experiences consolidation, it doesn't really take a soothsayer with a conflicting interest in to tell you that.

and so on

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#37

Post by kspacewalk2 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:08 PM UTC

v64 wrote: post #16

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #7

Consider the source, right? How many people without a large vested interest in the propagation and uptake of cryptocurrency consider further growth likely? My guess is that governments will more and more realize that the main utility of blockchains is money laundering and speculation. As has been remarked over and over again, they don't solve any above board problem more efficiently or with lower expense than existin…

I honestly don't understand where the perception comes from that this technology is only useful for laundering and speculation. Certainly it is currently being used for those purposes. But to say there is no imaginable use outside of that seems unwarranted. I've commented in the past here that the use of public blockchains to automate the functions of clearinghouses and escrow services will be a huge cost reduction f…

>the use of public blockchains to automate the functions of clearinghouses and escrow services will be a huge cost reduction for many industries such as finance.

But we don't want financial transactions to be fully automated and immutable. We want escrow services to be subject to laws, we want a judicial undo and modify button. So if you remove the whole "no one can change history" bit because it's an anti-feature, it is unclear why we need blockchain in the first place.

I'll redily accept that my understanding of blockchain is limited, so I'm open to being told why I'm wrong. Consider this a strong opinion weakly held.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#38

Post by v64 » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #33

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you look at what MakerDAO is doing with the Dai stablecoin, they've proven that it's possible to create a synthetic asset closely pegged to the dollar purely through financial incentives, and they did it all just using Ethereum v1. A holder of Dai can earn 4% APY through a Dai Savings Account, and a vote is currently in place to raise the rate to 6%. >I personally find it incredible that an asset exists on the b…

I can easily believe it. I believe there was another famous pre-crypto version of this run by a guy... Madoff or something? I wonder how that's going today.

The difference between MakerDAO and Madoff is that MakerDAO, being on the blockchain, is completely auditable. You can see exactly where money is coming in and where money is going out. Websites such as DaiStats [1] provide basic stats based on this ability to audit MakerDAO. For instance, as of this post, there are 74,223,081.54 Dai in existence, 1,591,183 Ether currently being collateralized for Dai loans, and a bank surplus of 257,346.17 Dai collected in interest.

This level of transparency is the very opposite of Madoff.

[1] https://daistats.com/

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#39

Post by ChrisClark » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:10 PM UTC

4AoZqrH2fsk5UB wrote: post #13

I’m pretty new to crypto in general, but it seems to me that the primary value of it in coming years would be anonymity/privacy. As I understand it Bitcoin has some problems in this regard, but others have solved it. I just can’t find it hard to believe we get to 2030 without a way to buy things anonymously online.

There are several larger private chains, including at least one that has a built in decentralized marketplace. But adoption is very low. People may not know they care about private transactions until too late.

In the end, it might depend on a chain becoming popular first before people want to use privacy features on top of it, like using Ernst & Young's Nightfall protocol that's built on top of Ethereum.

Re: Cryptocurrency in the 2020s

#40

Post by rolltiide » Fri, Jan 03, 2020, 11:12 PM UTC

vehementi wrote: post #25

nobleach wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember people scoffing at the internet like there no legitimate use-cases for it. "Yeah, we have places for information, it's called Grolier's Encyclopedia on CD-ROM, and it's cheap!". "I already have yellow pages delivered for free by C&P Bell". While cryptocurrency may be quite a bit more narrow, blockchain is most likely a far more interesting technology.

It is, but approximately 100% of startups (ICOs) formed around it have failed right? That's not to say there are none, but a fuck ton of people have tried to come up with cool ideas and approximately zero worked out, like at all.

Was the same in the second half of the 90s with tech/internet companies. Only in hindsight can you point to the 5 that didn't fail, but at the time you wouldn't have been able to pick them out from the lineup, or the graveyard, they probably weren't your favorites or you hadn't heard of them. Many programmers and sales people weren't able to get jobs and had to question their life choices. Its not so different with the digital asset and ledger space, fortunately this time it is just an extension of "tech" so there is no real drought for people that were knowledgeable in the niche.