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New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

tuwien.at

31–40 of 163 posts

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#31
post #7

Every time some phenomenon arises from a recipe of fairly typical materials I wonder what other surprises nature has in store for us. The idea that the crystalline structure plays a large role in the bulk thermal conductivity of the material is kind of mind-blowing at first and then retrospectively obvious.

The space of "fairly typical materials" is very wide because there are lots of elements and their combinations blow up very fast. Secondly, materials are often very sensitive to small physical or chemical changes, resulting in wildly differing properties.

To you the simpleness of the final result is surprising, but that simple result was discovered after a long and exhaustive search. A search into a wide and shallow space can be just as impressive and difficult as a search into a narrow and deep space.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#33
post #11

What does the level of performance indicated here likely mean in terms of the efficiency of, say, a thermal energy plant of some description? How far is the needle shifted for an end user?

The Peltier and Seebeck effects are so grossly inefficient that even an order of magnitude increase in efficiency doesn’t bring it into reason for basically any purpose. I’m not actually aware of any device ever made that uses the seebeck effect in any substantial way other than the little heat powered fans people put on wood stoves. The peltier effect is just down right awesome, you put power in and now it’s cold!?…

> I’m not actually aware of any device ever made that uses the seebeck effect in any substantial way other than the little heat powered fans people put on wood stoves.

It's used to power space probes that can't use solar panels. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#34

Sadly the key here is lab scale and vanadium. Costs won’t make it worthwhile.

I'm glad you ran the numbers for this to reach such an important conclusion about the future of this technology, RandomWorker. Care to show your working?

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#35
post #7

Every time some phenomenon arises from a recipe of fairly typical materials I wonder what other surprises nature has in store for us. The idea that the crystalline structure plays a large role in the bulk thermal conductivity of the material is kind of mind-blowing at first and then retrospectively obvious.

The space of "fairly typical materials" is very wide because there are lots of elements and their combinations blow up very fast. Secondly, materials are often very sensitive to small physical or chemical changes, resulting in wildly differing properties. To you the simpleness of the final result is surprising, but that simple result was discovered after a long and exhaustive search. A search into a wide and shallow…

I think OP was just expressing delight and wonder at our surprising and elegant universe rather than making light of the findings.

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#37
post #7

Every time some phenomenon arises from a recipe of fairly typical materials I wonder what other surprises nature has in store for us. The idea that the crystalline structure plays a large role in the bulk thermal conductivity of the material is kind of mind-blowing at first and then retrospectively obvious.

I am twenty years removed from it, but I used to be well-informed on this kind of thing; I have a PhD in mineral physics.

Let's see how well I can explain this (haven't read the article, yet, sorry! Waiting for a plane...)

So you're no doubt familiar with the physics of a vibrating string; it resonates at wavelengths (length of string, 2 * length of string, 3 * length of string... n as n->inf). So you can express any vibrational state of the string as sum(intensity * wavelength); so you can represent the state of the string as a vector of intensities on a basis of allowable vibrations of the string.

Let's call these _vibrational modes_. Let's assume occupancy of these modes is quantized. It's (sort of...) the same as energy levels of atomic orbitals in electronic structure, if you remember that from chemistry classes; the way it's not the same is important (bosons vs fermions) but not at this level of handwaving :-)

So this is how solids store energy, and we call this energy "heat".

A reasonable approximation for a crystalline structure is balls – point masses – connected by springs, where the springs are covalent bonds, plus electrostatic effects between point charges. Intuitively, you can follow that the same kind of _vibrational spectrum_ will arise from this arrangement (in the same kind of way; the solutions of the differential equation of this system of forces under periodic boundary conditions). So materials have resonant frequencies in the same way guitar strings do.

Therefore, this vibrational spectrum defines the thermal behavior of a material; heat capacity, thermal conductance, etc etc etc etc. Each of these vibrational modes is also tied to a collective motion of the particles in the material, which (if sufficiently violent) will tear the structure apart – there's the solid-to-liquid phase transition – or, more subtly, if lost will lower the symmetry of the crystal structure, which gives rise to solid-to-solid phase transitions (an example would be alpha to beta quartz, which will crack your crockery if you leave it in the oven on a cleaning cycle; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartz_inversion).

There's a lot of depth here, as you can imagine!

Re: New Material Breaks World Record Turning Heat into Electricity

#40
post #39
post #38

does this imply an overall entropy reduction for a whole system comprising a device and support apparatus for reusing its heat as energy source supply?

No you can't make a perpetual motion machine with it ;)

But could you produce a cooling system that this could power?

Or at least recycle some of the heat fridge/freezers produce back into electricity.

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