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Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

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Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#31
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, most common sense things are indeed right, so...

Occam's razor is just another brand of shaving razors.

Well, Occam's Razor is just common sense based itself.

It's not an absolute rule, and not something that has been (or can be) proven.

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#32

I foresee a lot of comments from monolingual americans and brits trying to dispute this.

Yep. And they'll be saying things like "the bilingualism dementia study was already debunked", and "we've studied 100s of interventions that supposedly led to IQ increases and none of them have replicated so what are the chances this is a true effect".

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#33
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who grew up in a bilingual environment, it seems intuitive to me that I'm worse for it (in terms of my social dealings and my problem-solving skills). I think if I had linguistic skills tested, I would probably be rated above-average for both English and my maternal tongue, but somehow to me it just doesn't feel that way... and I find this profoundly annoying, I feel home nowhere.

I'm not bilingual, so this is an outsider looking in, but piggybacking off the sibling comment I wonder if you feel you're worse at language because you'll often have thoughts during a conversation that your brain can express easily in one language but not the one currently being spoken? So you often feel like you're having trouble expressing yourself in any given language? One could argue that such events occur for…

As a bilingual (and a writer/storyteller by trade), I've always seen the second language as opening my brain to other phrases and analogies that don't exist in the other language. Some people aren't able to parse the extra options, but many are.

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#34

I foresee a lot of comments from monolingual americans and brits trying to dispute this.

Well... Let's say that OP sounds like it may be oversimplifying a wee bit. The Replication Crisis already came for this one. (And yes, you should be skeptical of any claim to cognitive benefits.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_effects_of_multiling... https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/life-bilingual/20190... https://www.newyorker.com/science/maria-konnikova/bilingual-... https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/02/the-batt... https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Relationship-of-Bi... https://psyarxiv.com/gjh95/

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#36
I've been learning a second language, one that is very different than English, and it has been a complete mind fuck. I can see why knowing two languages would have a positive effect on your brain: another language is an entire other way of thinking about the world. Language is an artifact of the culture that created it, and it crystallizes the values and beliefs of that culture. By learning the language, you can enter into an entire other world.

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#37
Interesting point about adults acquiring language through the left side of the brain vs. children acquiring through both hemispheres. I wonder whether that is nature or nurture -- does it reflect changes in brain structure in adulthood, or does it reflect the ways in which each respective group tends to learn languages?

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#38
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I really monolingual when I'm fluent in multiple programming languages and endless niche industry jargon? Jokes aside, I'd assume the context switching would be psychologically rather similar.

The context switching between programming languages bears no subjective similarity to human language. As someone who knows 2 human languages and 6-8 computer languages, it's just not at all similar. They don't use the same parts of your brain, for starters. You can't describe a dream in Java.

I know French and English and several programming languages, and they do seem very similar to me.

>You can't describe a dream in Java.

Before you write any code, you first imagine how the application should work. So yes, a person can codify something from their imagination into Java.

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#39
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that it seems intuitive increases the risk that the study is wrong

As someone who grew up in a bilingual environment, it seems intuitive to me that I'm worse for it (in terms of my social dealings and my problem-solving skills). I think if I had linguistic skills tested, I would probably be rated above-average for both English and my maternal tongue, but somehow to me it just doesn't feel that way... and I find this profoundly annoying, I feel home nowhere.

It is a known thing that Bilinguals usually have a smaller vocabulary by grade level in both languages on average compared to most peera but well within proficiency windows. Social issues are likely way more "awkwardness" of being a minority among a minority than shared identity than deficiency related.

Looking at the numbers effectively it seems that monolinguals have diminished returns - and I can see that just because a lot of problem spaces are like that.

Granted "vocabulary size" isn't quite apples to apples given how languages and syntaxes differ.

Re: Multilingual People Have Healthier, More Engaged Brains? (2016)

#40

Check back in 10 years after the replication crisis has burned through this field.

It seems far-fetched to you that learning a second language has benefits for the brain?

It doesn't matter if it's intuitive. Lots of intuitive things are false.

Further, the more you think about it, the less intuitive it is. I believe that second languages, completely unstratified on other factors, is correlated with "better brains" by some metric. I do not believe that the statement that this is causal, or totally uniform. Could it not be that better brains seek out new languages? Could it be that learning a language is healthy for some part of the population and not others? For a trivial example, is learning a fifth language really worth your time? Is it possible that people who learn a new language would do absolutely nothing with that time otherwise?

As for my own thoughts, learning a new natural language is extraordinarily boring. There are no problems to solve, it's just memorization and exercise. It takes a tremendous capacity to deal with boredom to learn a new language, and the tremendous capacity to deal with boredom does not strike me as uniformly good, though it does strike me as probably being correlated with higher average intelligence.

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