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Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

citylab.com

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Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#31

Post by _jal »

Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

One popular attack on public transportation is to tie it to class and race issues, in order to prime people to think in zero-sum, tribal terms. Another is to place the burden of solving every transportation problem upon those who would dare propose any modification to the status quo.

Once you see it, it stops working so well. (More depressingly, you see this cynical strategy repeated elsewhere and repeated by people who don't actually realize what's going on.)

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#32

Post by benrbray »

vorpalhex wrote: post #11
Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

Even in Japan, which has wonderful public transportation and was actually a joy to navigate, there are cars everywhere and frequently there are times when you need a car or your ability to get to places outside of the cities becomes expensive and takes a long time if it's possible at all.

Living in/around Tokyo, I had the exact opposite experience. Cars, trains, pedestrians, and bicyclists are in near-perfect balance.

For the most part, people live within walking or biking distance of a train station that takes them to work. Around each station is a cluster of shops and restaurants. Commercial traffic is well-separated from places where people live, meaning that on neighborhood streets there are virtually no cars. And the result? Children playing. Kindergartners walking themselves to school. Birds chirping. Green spaces. Peace and quiet. All in the middle of one of the world's largest cities.

Outside of Tokyo, the balance is slightly more in favor of cars, but the country's extensive train system means you don't need to own a car to get yourself there. It's easy enough to rent a car locally for a few days when you really need one. Cheaper too compared to the cost of purchasing a car and paying for insurance, parking, maintenance, etc..

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#33

Post by dashundchen »

pif wrote: post #6
spats1990 wrote: post #5

The average U.S. car carries an average of 1.56 people and weighs an average, for new cars, of almost two tons.

Yes, and ... ? What's exactly your point?

I read it as cars don't belong in urban areas. They are incredibly inefficient energy and space wise.

Look at the average downtown area of an American city and see how much is devoted to surface parking lots, garages, highways, interchanges, arterials.

Take a look at this site and you'll see aerials of American cities before and after cars, and how incredible amounts of density, productivity, and housing were destroyed:

http://iqc.ou.edu/2014/12/12/60yrsmidwest/

https://urbanist.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83454714d69e2017d3c37d8...

It's a loop with positive feedback - the more space given over to cars, the less dense destinations become, the more cars become required. Conversely the denser places become, the easier it is to makes places bike, transit and pedestrian friendly, and the more difficult it becomes to drive.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#34

Post by amwelles »

Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

“Ban cars” is shorthand for a much bigger societal problem. It’s not an attack on a person or what they need to do to survive. These articles are about us as a whole, not the individual.

This toot explains it well: https://mspsocial.net/@t54r4n1/100699058171393417

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#35

Post by sdenton4 »

telchar wrote: post #12
Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

Parking lots at the border is, in my opinion, much better than parking garages in the center. At least that way the city streets won't be clogged by people coming from out of town. After they get to the city they don't need the cars, so leave them at the edge.

And there's (3 times the change in radius) more space to put the parking lots at the edge... That seems fine!

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#36

Post by annoyingnoob »

spats1990 wrote: post #23
pif wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and ... ? What's exactly your point?

Just thought I'd toss it in there as a sort of topping or garnish for the article. Private cars in urban areas are incredibly inefficient from just about any direction you choose to view it from.

All cars are inefficient, they use most of their power just to move themselves. Biking on the roads between my house and my work is suicidal.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#37

Post by FussyZeus »

benrbray wrote: post #16
Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions. I don't quite understand your point about the "technological and class di…

> America is certainly decades (if not centuries) behind in public transportation. However, these CityLab articles are doing a great thing by highlighting our unhealthy dependence on cars and making it a part of everyday conversation. If we're ever going to change we need to start by agreeing there is a problem and discussing realistic solutions.

Then let's discuss some realistic solutions: Outside of densely populated metros, public transportation is a wash. In my area, small-ish city, we have pretty solid mass transit options but it's still a massive pain in the ass because you end up scheduling your entire day around the bus schedule. And if the bus isn't running when you might need to run an errand out? Oh fuckin well.

People parade around mass transit like it's the end all be all of great things we can do, and being a liberal around most things, I wish that was true. But even the stories about Japan's awesome mass transit make me cringe; stuck in a train for 45 minutes each way? Pass. The hardest conceivable pass.

You know what my commute is? I get in my car and drive from my suburb to a business park. It takes 10 bloody minutes. Even driving my pickup truck, I use roughly 30 gallons of fuel every three weeks.

When I want to run errands, or pop out for lunch, or whatever, I can walk outside and use my vehicle. It's there all the time, 24 hours a day. No app required. No booking required. Certainly no waiting on someone to drive over and get me. There is simply no mass transit option that can equate this, end of.

I'm not saying there aren't improvements to be made and I'm certainly not saying that all mass transit is bad; but to put forward mass transit as a realistic option to get rid of cars, you look like a complete fool to anyone who doesn't live in a city. Pie in the sky fucking nonsense.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#38

Post by C1sc0cat »

Jamwinner wrote: post #4

We get it citylab, you hate cars, and think everyone lives in the downtown of a metropolis. Meanwhile, the rest of us have places to be, and 99% of my country has no public transport. While I agree that city centers need more walking room, the categorical exclusion of longer distant transport options will just create more parking lots at the border of such areas. The more modern planning ignores the forest (countries…

Its a very common failing of architecture fans who want to decide how the masses live without actually asking the end users.

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#39

Post by jacquesm »

agensaequivocum wrote: post #28
NPMaxwell wrote: post #2

Part of the change is due to the appearance of alternative powered vehicles. In Tokyo, it seems like every mother is riding an electric cargo bike with covered seating for two kids and room for groceries -- the minivan of bicycles. In Seattle, the morning commute is full of electric skateboards, scooters, onewheels, and wheelchairs. It looks doable.

Not really when you have 5-7+ kids.

Number or age?

5-7 and even 10 year olds can easily be transported by bakfiets, it happens all the time in NL, besides that when they're 10 they can cycle by themselves (earlier even).

Re: Car-Free Streets Will Soon Be the Norm

#40

Post by tomtheelder »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #19
NPMaxwell wrote: post #2

Part of the change is due to the appearance of alternative powered vehicles. In Tokyo, it seems like every mother is riding an electric cargo bike with covered seating for two kids and room for groceries -- the minivan of bicycles. In Seattle, the morning commute is full of electric skateboards, scooters, onewheels, and wheelchairs. It looks doable.

How do those work in winter? We had electric scooters, but they were all scooped up by their parent companies in October ahead of the coming months of hell.

Mostly fine, sometimes a problem. It's pretty much like regular bikes (or cars for that matter): some might not work well if there is significant snow/ice, but then you will just need one that is suitable for those sort of conditions. The scooter companies are putting out very low end models that aren't designed for any sort of adverse conditions, and they are scared of lawsuits/blowback from accidents.

This sort of transportation is in its infancy. Bikes are in a better place, and we have bikes that can ride fairly safely on full on snow.

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