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Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

elpais.com

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Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#31

Post by onion2k »

_Understated_ wrote: post #21
megous wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I checked, comapnies are subject to the laws of countries they operate in.

Not trolling, but is there anything that says they're breaking the current laws in Spain? (I'm from the UK, so no dog in this fight althought I can see our gov implementing it at some point I reckon) Sure, they're taking advantage of tax loopholes I'd bet but in themselves, they're not necessarily against the law. They're probably paying all the tax in Spain they're currently, legally obliged to pay at the moment. Ju…

They're probably paying all the tax in Spain they're currently, legally obliged to pay at the moment.

That's true, but it's also true that Spain is free to change its laws whenever and however the Spanish government wants. If Spain wants to change their laws to negatively impact American companies by modifying the 'loophole' so it no longer works they're completely within their liberty to do that. America using tariffs to protect American interests is also fine. That's just how international politics works.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#32

Post by vector_rotcev »

As a non-economist (amateur or professional), I get the impression that countries are losing their concern of the repercussions of displeasing the USA economically.

Is this an accurate interpretation? If so, is it that they're less fearful of reprisals (tariffs?) or that they're less confident in the benefits of cooperation with the USA? Or a mix? Or something else?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#33

Post by frr149 »

HorstG wrote: post #5
nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

The EU will never close tax loopholes since there will always be a veto from the likes of Ireland, Netherlands, Luxembourgh or UK.

No, not the UK

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#34

Post by _Understated_ »

pc86 wrote: post #25
_Understated_ wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trolling, but is there anything that says they're breaking the current laws in Spain? (I'm from the UK, so no dog in this fight althought I can see our gov implementing it at some point I reckon) Sure, they're taking advantage of tax loopholes I'd bet but in themselves, they're not necessarily against the law. They're probably paying all the tax in Spain they're currently, legally obliged to pay at the moment. Ju…

There's no such thing as a tax loophole. It's the law, and is written specifically the way it is for a reason. "Loophole" by definition implies that it's a mistake, and with the amount of money at stake that's incredibly unlikely.

I upvoted your comment but I respectfully disagree: If a country has a law that says "you pay X tax using this law/method but Y tax using this other law/method" Google are perfectly within their rights to say, "Let's use Y".

Who in their right mind would say "you know what, I'm going to pay more tax"?

Have you seen the size of modern tax laws?[1] They're utterly gargantuan!

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/13/britai...

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#35

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

850M euro, the proposed amount to be raised, would be on the order of 1% of Google's worldwide revenues. Google doesn't break down its revenues by country but it's hard to imagine it derives more than about 1/20 of the revenues from Spain. If we assume 1/20, which seems very generous to Spain, the amount to be raised amounts to about 20% of revenues in Spain.

So, this seems very high to me? Is this amount annual, or decennial like how US spending and tax amounts are reported?

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#36

Post by Nasrudith »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #10
qxnqd wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes, I know. They are socialists so they don't care if blue collar workers suffer just so they can "send a message". The Conservatives in the UK are planning a similar tax, they are certainly not a socialist party.

It is nationalism in that case or more specifically "tax somebody else who can't vote against" always being a popular plan among voters.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#37

Post by lucb1e »

rat9988 wrote: post #13
ptah wrote: post #6

I don't understand why the US constantly interferes in the internal affairs of other countries like this

The us is protecting its own interests. It doesn't care about right or wrong, nor does any other country. Wether the current action is morally right, and wether countries should behave outside the boundaries of ethics is an exercise left to the reader.

If that is true, why do countries spend money on development aid? Isn't that caring about what's right?

Or to take a more extreme example, why do we give a lifelong salary for nothing in return to people who are unable to work for the rest of their lives? Surely killing them would be more efficient.

I do think states should, can, and do care about right and wrong to a certain extent. That's the difference between us and governments like the Chinese.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#38

Post by bluecalm »

jeltz wrote: post #24
nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

That has already happened to some degree, we just need to expand it and simplify it. Within the EU you have to pay the VAT of the country of the buyer for "digital services". But shouldn't Google and Amazon already be subject to that since they have EU subsidiaries?

You have to pay the VAT when you sell to EU even if you don't have presence in EU. Google pays that. The fuss is about some countries wanting more than that.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#39

Post by nabla9 »

jeltz wrote: post #24
nabla9 wrote: post #2

These are patchwork solutions. It would make more sense if EU countries would make laws that extend normal VAT to all internet business in EU and close all Irish loopholes. Google and others use Irish tax arrangement schemes like "The Double Irish" (base erosion and profit shifting), the Single Malt, and CAIA to avoid paying taxes. 12 EU states reject move to expose companies' tax avoidance https://www.theguardian.co…

That has already happened to some degree, we just need to expand it and simplify it. Within the EU you have to pay the VAT of the country of the buyer for "digital services". But shouldn't Google and Amazon already be subject to that since they have EU subsidiaries?

Their local EU subsidiaries are just for expenses and business.

These companies show their profits in places like Bermuda (British Overseas Territory) Ireland, or Luxembourg and use all kinds of schemes and special arrangements to reduce them.

Re: Spain planning on going ahead with ‘Google tax’ despite US tariff threats

#40

Post by mrep »

asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #35

850M euro, the proposed amount to be raised, would be on the order of 1% of Google's worldwide revenues. Google doesn't break down its revenues by country but it's hard to imagine it derives more than about 1/20 of the revenues from Spain. If we assume 1/20, which seems very generous to Spain, the amount to be raised amounts to about 20% of revenues in Spain. So, this seems very high to me? Is this amount annual, or…

The tax will effect more than Google like Facebook and Amazon. The 850M number accounts for the tax revenues from all companies.
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