Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#31

Post by snuxoll » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #28

snuxoll wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. It would also make recovery of stolen devices easier. Refurbisher has Apple c…

This really can't work. They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back, or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone. Nobody wants to put himself in the middle of these things.

> They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back

Money doesn't get paid until activation lock is verified as disabled. T-Mobile does this every time I trade in a phone, it's nothing new.

> or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone.

There's no good way to ever handle this, ever - even without activation locks. Not worth worrying about, send the device to the registered owner and let the courts deal with it if people want to get bitchy with their former partner.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#32

Post by jessriedel » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

Was there no other source for this story besides this piece of hyperbole? Everything is a "nightmare" and "chaos" with "victims" and phones sent to the "shredder". We shouldn't support this garbage writing.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#33

Post by Scoundreller » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

gargravarr wrote: post #23

qxnqd wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most components aren't affected by activation lock, on iphones or on macs. You can still reuse many things that are in demand, like the screen, the speakers, the buttons, the cameras, and so on. It will be the same with macs. THey will throw away the motherboard and sell the rest. Still profitable.

Not any more: https://www.theverge.com/2018/11/12/18077166/apple-macbook-a... "The parts affected, according to the document, are the display assembly, logic board, top case, and Touch ID board for the MacBook Pro, and the logic board and flash storage on the iMac Pro." That doesn't leave much salvageable.

As someone that has parted out his and hers old MacBook Airs to fund their new ones, can confirm.

It was surprising how much value the old parts had.

Sad that old units with a broken X will just be scrapped because Apple will wants $hundreds for any of its specialized parts.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#34

Post by retrac » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

filleduchaos wrote: post #24

eropple wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you picked up, before you spun up your hauteur engine, that that number is not six thousand stolen iPhones, but six thousand trashed and recycled ones? And that there's no way to communicate to a user that their lock prevents it from being done? There's no reason why a user can't be asked by Apple "hey, a recycler received this locked iPhone, do you want to wipe and unlock it for recycling?" save for an unwillingn…

I think the (valid if cynical) implication is that a large number of those "trashed and recycled" phones were trashed and recycled by people who are...not the owners.

Perhaps. Thieves don't strike me as the type to be more eco-conscious than average, though. I'm betting they're mostly just thrown out. Many people can't be bothered with the hassle of trying to sell a used device.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#35

Post by aeturnum » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #28

snuxoll wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. It would also make recovery of stolen devices easier. Refurbisher has Apple c…

This really can't work. They'd get unscrupulous people taking phones they sold back, or a couple who broke up where it's not clear who "owns" the phone. Nobody wants to put himself in the middle of these things.

I mean, people can currently sell phones and make them useless for the new owner (on purpose or on accident) and the new owner has new recourse. Surely allowing communication about it would be better.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#36

Post by hombre_fatal » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #26

crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

They'll still get value from it. Some crackhead will steal your phone and it can be parted out to use the screen, the glass, the case, etc., even if it can't be activated again. It may be worth $20 instead of $150 to him, but he'll still steal it.

> It may be worth $20 instead of $50 to him

The difference between a working phone vs just its parts isn't $30. You should've gone with the parent's $30 vs $300 estimation.

I guarantee there are people willing to violently mug you for $300 but not for $30.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#37

Post by faitswulff » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

I feel like most posters here aren't reading the full article, specifically this paragraph:

> When asked what could be done, Schindler suggests Apple implement a bypass that would allow certified recyclers and refurbishers to unlock donated devices if they’re not reported lost or stolen. And Shindler says 99% of the locked devices his facility receives aren’t lost or stolen. “People don’t steal a phone to then go run and drop it off at their local recycling center,” he quips.

Allowing certified (by Apple) refurbishers and recyclers to unlock the phones - iff it's not reported lost or stolen - doesn't seem like an open invitation to theft to me.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#38

Post by jedberg » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

You can't make a security feature with a backdoor, or it's not security feature anymore. I'm with Apple on this. They really have no way of knowing that you're selling/giving away the phone, so they can't have the phone tell you to unlock.

That's really on the buyer. They need to know about getting the seller to reset.

Right now Sprint is running a deal where they give you a new phone if you turn in the old one. In very big bold letters, they explain that if the phone arrives locked, they will send it back and then charge you the full price of your new phone and shipping your old one back.

That's the right way for a reseller to handle this.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#39

Post by protomyth » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 6:59 PM UTC

Well, I'm getting a little sick of Apple locking the actual owner of the device out and then telling us to go talk to the phone company who has no clue what Apple is talking about then fax in some documents that might or might not get Apple to unlock the device. The thought of this psychosis being brought to the Mac side of the house is just painful. I can only imagine how a non-technical person feels when their phone rebels on them and they aren't anywhere near an Apple Store. The last phone we had problems with had to be taken to a store some 400 miles away from the place where the person lived because a couple of weeks of BS phone calls didn't do it.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#40

Post by jedberg » Wed, Dec 04, 2019, 7:02 PM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #37

I feel like most posters here aren't reading the full article, specifically this paragraph: > When asked what could be done, Schindler suggests Apple implement a bypass that would allow certified recyclers and refurbishers to unlock donated devices if they’re not reported lost or stolen. And Shindler says 99% of the locked devices his facility receives aren’t lost or stolen. “People don’t steal a phone to then go run…

How hard would it be for a minimum wage employee of a "certified" recycler to steal the key necessary to unlock locked phones?

A security feature with a backdoor isn't a security feature anymore.