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Is Plagiarism Wrong?

thepointmag.com

31–40 of 62 posts

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#31
Yes, plagiarism is wrong.

The author starts by telling how he, as a child, confused the directions of "write a poem" and "write down a poem". He then doubles down on this mistake, rather than concluding that English is weird.

The author conflates legality and morality, stating that any group that establishes extralegal moral norms needs to reexamine its assumptions. The author implicitly and incorrectly assumes that laws are the source of morals, rather than existing to incentive moral behavior.

The author fails to consider the effect of reputation. Reputation is a heuristic that is used to determine how likely something is, given how trustworthy the speaker is on the subject. If a researcher in an esoteric field, having contributed several results to the field, suggests a new way to interpret the field, that suggests that the idea has already been reasonably vetted. A crank email, on the other hand, may present similarly novel ideas, but they have not been vetted. Plagiarism inappropriately assigns reputation, subverting this heuristic.

The author's metaphor of the apple tree has some rather unfortunate implications. By the logic given, a person should plant apple trees farther from the property line, so that all apples fall well away from public roads. In scientific discovery, this would mean hiding one's findings, refusing to publish other than to state that a discovery has been made. This was the method that was in use through the 16th century, and resulted in much slower rate of progress. Read, for instance, the multiple discoveries of the Cardano Formula.

In short, the author's case that plagiarism should be abandoned as a concept is severely flawed.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#32

Yes, plagiarism is wrong. The author starts by telling how he, as a child, confused the directions of "write a poem" and "write down a poem". He then doubles down on this mistake, rather than concluding that English is weird. The author conflates legality and morality, stating that any group that establishes extralegal moral norms needs to reexamine its assumptions. The author implicitly and incorrectly assumes that…

I had similar takeaways but could not have phrased it nearly this well. Thanks.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#33
One place where I think most people don't mind a little plagiarism is in joke telling. I can't tell you how many Dad Jokes I've found on the Internet and passed off as my own, and I think there's sort of an understanding that if you read a joke off a Laffy Taffy wrapper, you now get to tell that joke to others without attribution.

That said, in the professional comedy world, there's the idea of joke theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke_theft and I think most people recognize that as more clearly an example of cheating.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#34

Yes, plagiarism is wrong. The author starts by telling how he, as a child, confused the directions of "write a poem" and "write down a poem". He then doubles down on this mistake, rather than concluding that English is weird. The author conflates legality and morality, stating that any group that establishes extralegal moral norms needs to reexamine its assumptions. The author implicitly and incorrectly assumes that…

I'm too lazy to read the article (hey at least I'm honest), but I think you can have a working science/news with plagiarism.

In our western culture everything is egocentric. You work hard to be remembered for milenia for wonderful things that you've done. We try to mention who first observed or invented something (even though it often happens in multiple places at once and only the most popular and best marketed person gets the mention), but those people rarely care. Mostly because they are dead, but also PG's latest essay[1].

You can have equally valid, working and moral system where it's rewarding enough when your pattern is getting spread rather than anybody caring that it was made by you. It seems to even be going in that direction with the youngest generation, memes and stuff.

And reputation still works. You assign weight to given entity based on previous information that it provided. Whether it was "invented" or merely repeated doesn't matter.

1. http://paulgraham.com/genius.html

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#36
post #34

Yes, plagiarism is wrong. The author starts by telling how he, as a child, confused the directions of "write a poem" and "write down a poem". He then doubles down on this mistake, rather than concluding that English is weird. The author conflates legality and morality, stating that any group that establishes extralegal moral norms needs to reexamine its assumptions. The author implicitly and incorrectly assumes that…

I'm too lazy to read the article (hey at least I'm honest), but I think you can have a working science/news with plagiarism. In our western culture everything is egocentric. You work hard to be remembered for milenia for wonderful things that you've done. We try to mention who first observed or invented something (even though it often happens in multiple places at once and only the most popular and best marketed pers…

I think you bring up good points. I think the only difference between Open Source and Proprietary software is that one you're allowed to plagiarize, and the other you're not. In the end, Open Source wins as it automatically gets way more exposure and users, as anyone can access, copy, modify and freely share it forever.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#37
I think the author is making a good point here, though overstating the case. Remember, plagiarism in academia isn’t just stealing an entire paper and claiming it’s yours. In my narrow sub field, probably the first three sentences of every paper’s introduction could be identical, but if I copied those from another paper that’s plagiarism. Likewise, if my paper built on a useful equation from another’s work, and I copied the explanation directly from that paper, it’s plagiarism. Yet as the author said, this does little disservice to the reader. These rules are more about properly maintaining an academic measure of merit.

But while this is a great point, we shouldn’t abandon the problem of plagiarism all together. Instead, just start with your moral system, say utilitarian or a Kantian ethic, and then put it to the test. For certain, some systems will find it intrinsically immortal regardless of the social context.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#38
The plagiarism that I personally see is specifically code plagiarism. I am a programming educator on youtube.com/sentdex and pythonprogramming.net

Lately, I have been digging into this, and it's far more rampant than I ever expected (I am still digging, but we're talking in the 10's of thousands of examples that I've found with basic automated searching just in matches to my own personal code). I have found some seriously absurd examples where an entire portfolio consists of my code, and the person got a job from it at a large company.

Compare a student who writes their own code to the student who plagiarizes.

If you're the non-copy-pasta student, you're competing with the fakes for jobs.

If you're an employer, you're tasked with figuring out who is who, and I strongly doubt you would personally want the copy-paster at your business for both legal and productivity reasons.

I think some people confuse plagiarism and innovation, especially when we start to wrap in "intellectual property" into it.

Plagiarism is a shortcut used to fake skills/credentials.

Innovation is a real skill, though could be debated I am sure.

Intellectual property value is up for debate.

People who are cheating/faking their way, lying about their value/skills harms both employers and students.

Just don't let people debating about plagiarism try to sneak in innovation/building-upon as a means of a straw man.

We're talking copy and paste here. Maybe some synonym swaps.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm too lazy to read the article (hey at least I'm honest), but I think you can have a working science/news with plagiarism. In our western culture everything is egocentric. You work hard to be remembered for milenia for wonderful things that you've done. We try to mention who first observed or invented something (even though it often happens in multiple places at once and only the most popular and best marketed pers…

I think you bring up good points. I think the only difference between Open Source and Proprietary software is that one you're allowed to plagiarize, and the other you're not. In the end, Open Source wins as it automatically gets way more exposure and users, as anyone can access, copy, modify and freely share it forever.

I am sorry, what?

Open source software license does not generally allow such thing.

Re: Is Plagiarism Wrong?

#40
post #29

> “ American children are too stupid to memorize poetry, so they were jealous that you could do it.” Anyone else surprised that the child had no concept of cheating, and grew up writing articles asking if plagiarism is wrong? Plagiarism is a fancy word but cheating is something that kids by that age should understand. Also that’s a pretty darn nasty and entitled attitude from an immigrant family, who should have been…

> > “ American children are too stupid to memorize poetry, so they were jealous that you could do it.”

> Anyone else surprised that the child had no concept of cheating, and grew up writing articles asking if plagiarism is wrong?

Yeah, yikes.

Aside from growing up with a mother who will readily defend cheating, it must also be easier to cheat and plagiarize if you're taught to view others with such contempt.

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