Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 57 posts

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#31

Post by allworknoplay »

ericlevine wrote: post #27
allworknoplay wrote: post #25

Oh! You're the company who -- when I was requesting the non-consensual tome of personal data that Sift keeps on me (and basically everyone else in the US and other coutries) -- refused to accept my straight-faced selfie and instead specifically insisted over and over again that I need to look "joyful or happy" and try again. I get (in retrospect, after research) that you're asking for a real-time face pose change for…

Completely understand and sympathize with that. We absolutely can (and will) do a better job of conveying the intent of the different checks here. The pose change requested is randomized, but I get that this can be frustrating. I know you already get this, but for posterity, the idea here is to make sure the person submitting their ID is actually in front of the computer (and can react to a prompt). Attempting to use…

That's really nice to hear -- thanks for the reply! A "Why do we ask this?" link would probably be optimal.

I do get the aim, but it took me a while --- I'd wondered if it was simply data collection for more classifier training or something, which felt like a dodgy extra ask along with a verification service (even if it's the same strategy as recaptcha).

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#32

Post by 1996 »

ericlevine wrote: post #27
allworknoplay wrote: post #25

Oh! You're the company who -- when I was requesting the non-consensual tome of personal data that Sift keeps on me (and basically everyone else in the US and other coutries) -- refused to accept my straight-faced selfie and instead specifically insisted over and over again that I need to look "joyful or happy" and try again. I get (in retrospect, after research) that you're asking for a real-time face pose change for…

Completely understand and sympathize with that. We absolutely can (and will) do a better job of conveying the intent of the different checks here. The pose change requested is randomized, but I get that this can be frustrating. I know you already get this, but for posterity, the idea here is to make sure the person submitting their ID is actually in front of the computer (and can react to a prompt). Attempting to use…

So you require someone's PICTURE to deliver the data you gathered on that person? To further augment your digital stash? Or train your models to recognize said person? (after which you delete the picture, logical - storage space costs money)

I hope I'm wrong somewhere.

If I'm not, I don't think I want to do business with you, or to ever have my ID checked by you if it means you'll get to keep my data- then ask me for an up-to-date picture to improve your collection when I object to that.

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#33

Post by Animats »

privacy-first approach

So, let's take a look at your terms.[1]

However, we cannot guarantee that unauthorized third parties will never be able to defeat our security measures or use your personal information for improper purposes. You should always use caution before sharing your sensitive personal information online.

we each agree to resolve any claim, dispute, or controversy (excluding any claims for injunctive or other equitable relief as provided below) arising out of or in connection with or relating to these Website Terms of Use, or the breach or alleged breach thereof, by binding arbitration by JAMS, Inc.

Not only mandatory arbitration, but arbitration with JAMS, which has problems.[2] Not the American Arbitration Association consumer rules. The AAA will often send small claims to Small Claims Court, which is cheaper, and has real judges.

These Website Terms of Use, and any rights and licenses granted hereunder, may not be transferred or assigned by you, but may be assigned by Berbix without restriction.

So if you exit by being acquired by Google or Facebook or Tencent, they get all the data.

There's nothing in the terms which places any legal responsibilities on Berbix beyond minimal compliance with the law. The terms are no better than the average web site, and worse than many.

So, "privacy last".

[1] https://terms.berbix.com/terms/website [2] https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/PRIVATE-JUSTICE-Can-publ...

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#35

Post by sinalet »

1996 wrote: post #32
ericlevine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely understand and sympathize with that. We absolutely can (and will) do a better job of conveying the intent of the different checks here. The pose change requested is randomized, but I get that this can be frustrating. I know you already get this, but for posterity, the idea here is to make sure the person submitting their ID is actually in front of the computer (and can react to a prompt). Attempting to use…

So you require someone's PICTURE to deliver the data you gathered on that person? To further augment your digital stash? Or train your models to recognize said person? (after which you delete the picture, logical - storage space costs money) I hope I'm wrong somewhere. If I'm not, I don't think I want to do business with you, or to ever have my ID checked by you if it means you'll get to keep my data- then ask me for…

So the purpose of taking a picture of yourself is to make sure that the photo as depicted on the ID matches the person who is completing the flow. This is important as a stolen ID should not be usable for the purposes of online identity verification. We’re not in the business of selling your data, but of providing a secure, privacy-oriented way for businesses that have to perform ID checks to do so. In the situation described above, we’re providing identity verification services for Sift in the context of the data subject access requests they’re receiving.

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#37

Post by allworknoplay »

1996 wrote: post #32
ericlevine wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely understand and sympathize with that. We absolutely can (and will) do a better job of conveying the intent of the different checks here. The pose change requested is randomized, but I get that this can be frustrating. I know you already get this, but for posterity, the idea here is to make sure the person submitting their ID is actually in front of the computer (and can react to a prompt). Attempting to use…

So you require someone's PICTURE to deliver the data you gathered on that person? To further augment your digital stash? Or train your models to recognize said person? (after which you delete the picture, logical - storage space costs money) I hope I'm wrong somewhere. If I'm not, I don't think I want to do business with you, or to ever have my ID checked by you if it means you'll get to keep my data- then ask me for…

As OP in this thread, this is a complete mis-read of the situation; you should re-read the other comments and consider removing this one.

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#38

Post by sinalet »

Animats wrote: post #33

privacy-first approach So, let's take a look at your terms.[1] However, we cannot guarantee that unauthorized third parties will never be able to defeat our security measures or use your personal information for improper purposes. You should always use caution before sharing your sensitive personal information online. we each agree to resolve any claim, dispute, or controversy (excluding any claims for injunctive or…

Thanks for taking the time to carefully read our terms of service! We share your point of view that these aren't merely a series of boxes to check.

Our “privacy-first” claims are namely three-fold:

1. We limit the data returned to our customers and enforce a maximum data retention period after which data is permanently deleted. We encourage customers to reduce the amount of data they need and the number of days it must be stored.

2. We built our own image watermarking service to protect the sensitive images we process and store. This helps ensure that the images cannot be used to verify an identity on any other service.

3. We completed our SOC 2 Type 1 examination in March 2019. This is an intensive security audit performed by an accredited third party. We perform these annually.

And thanks for the feedback regarding JAMS specifically. We are in the process of revising our terms that were first drafted early this year before our public launch.

We really do appreciate this feedback, which we will take into account as we continue to iterate on both our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy to best-reflect our business practices. As part of this effort, we are making a commitment to always publish a record of all changes to our terms.

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#39

Post by sinalet »

callmeed wrote: post #34

Looks really cool and I have some ideas and side projects that could use this. Why is there no demo on your site?

Thanks! You can check out short videos of our mobile [1] and web [2] flows.

If you want to give it a try yourself, you can sign up and try our "test mode" for free!

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX4lQlCWXq0

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3nV0AXbsL8

Re: Launch HN: Berbix (YC S18) – Instant ID checks to fight fraud and stay compliant

#40

Post by sinalet »

ben1040 wrote: post #28
allworknoplay wrote: post #25

Oh! You're the company who -- when I was requesting the non-consensual tome of personal data that Sift keeps on me (and basically everyone else in the US and other coutries) -- refused to accept my straight-faced selfie and instead specifically insisted over and over again that I need to look "joyful or happy" and try again. I get (in retrospect, after research) that you're asking for a real-time face pose change for…

>when I was requesting the non-consensual tome of personal data that Sift keeps on me I hope Berbix has a plan here for the fact that when sketchy companies use their service, it will make them look sketchy by association.

We're rather selective in terms of which customers we serve given that we see the verification of someone’s identity as a privilege rather than a right.

With respect to Sift, we see them as good stewards given their narrow focus of preventing fraud as opposed to data brokers that sell your data to ad networks, hedge funds, etc.

Sift has taken a privacy-conscious approach to responding to data access requests by ensuring the individual is in fact who they say they are. We’re proud to help them prevent fraudulent access to sensitive personal information.

Post reply on HN