Live data from Hacker News

40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

missingprofits.world

31–40 of 167 posts

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#31

I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.

Based on that premise:

Should we, as a society, permit a select few to shift their wealth to tax havens or should those folks also join in with everyone else? Are those sheltering their taxes more privileged that they deserve being able skirt the rules others can't, even if others would do so given the same circumstances?

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#32
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.

I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…

Another big issue with US taxes is that tax dollars aren't well spent.

I'd be happy to pay the amount of taxes I'm currently paying in California if tax dollars were used well, but as it stands the public schools are underfunded, the highways are full of litter on the side, higher education isn't free, healthcare isn't universal, social security is underfunded, public transportation is dysfunctional, and so on.

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#33
post #6

I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.

Surely you have an alternative method of funding government then?

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#34
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.

Honestly, I'm down for paying taxes. It pays for my lifestyle and is propostional to my lifestyle. If I own land, that land is only valuable due to the society that land exists in. It's protected, and safe, due to public services like roads, which law enforcement, fire control folks, postal service, and ambulances drive upon. I've earned my income from a lifetime of education, starting from my public school kindergar…

I think most people would be down for paying taxes, however their main gripe, in my opinion, is that the quality of services (infrastructure, tax dollars being used for NSA spying on citizens, etc.) we're getting back for our tax dollars is dropping while taxes increase.

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#35
post #6

I am fairly certain 40% of all citizens would shift their income to a tax haven if possible.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.

You are benefiting from the fruits of society and in some way should give back. Taxes are maybe not the best system, but not paying them is not 'honorable'

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#36
post #11

Corporations being able to book their profits wherever they find it most convenient to book them, is utterly unreasonable. They make their profits in specific markets, and should be paying their taxes there. Profits made from selling in the US should be paid in the US, profits made from selling in Germany should be paid there. The problem is, profits are the end result of a lot of complex corporate operations across…

The problem with that is the expenses are already arbitrary with international businesses. It is Hollywood accounting of making movies "never turn a profit" writ large and arguably more honest. If say Amazon UK "rents" their branding, storefront, and similiar from Amazon US the value.

Essentially unfixed value goods + deductions = massive loophole. Unfixed fuzzy values are also very valuable to money launderers.

It is nastily entangled with other issues where a fix would carry major side effects. It is a metaphorical lodged bullet against the heart wall - its current existence is problematic but just yanking it out would do way worse damage.

Removing all deductions wouldn't be viable from many other business models.

For simpler amateur closes I can see a simple close being an explicit "your own external owned subcorporations never count as expenses" or "if you sell these exploitable things they must be open market bid and are transaction taxed" which would lead to lots of weirdness.

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#37
post #32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…

Another big issue with US taxes is that tax dollars aren't well spent. I'd be happy to pay the amount of taxes I'm currently paying in California if tax dollars were used well, but as it stands the public schools are underfunded, the highways are full of litter on the side, higher education isn't free, healthcare isn't universal, social security is underfunded, public transportation is dysfunctional, and so on.

It's a different issue, but yes, I can totally see how people would be less happy about paying taxes when those taxes are wasted on stupid crap and not used to improve the situation of them and their fellow citizens.

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#38
Not to stray into politics but in general terms, I'm wondering if decided views on the topic (either way) would be altered for folk living in a country which then democratically elected a government with a no-bones-about-it Marxist agenda. Interestingly enough, I believe such an experiment might take place shortly.

Re: 40% of multinational profits are shifted to tax havens each year

#39
post #21
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I don't think "paying" taxes are something that is honorable. The money is removed from you forcefully.

I think paying taxes to the society you're profiting from is entirely reasonable. The problem is that corporations are free to profit in one country but declare those profits in another country. Corporations can do that but people can't. (What's even worse, US citizens (US "persons" even, you don't have to be a citizen for this) that live and work abroad and have nothing to do with the US, still have to pay their tax…

Please don't confuse income taxes with taxes on profit. Income tax is like a tax on revenue - you pay it where you get it, you can't deduct costs. You can tax corporations on revenue or you could tax consumption (by VAT or sells tax) and that wouldn't be evaded either. The problem is with taxing profits and elusive concept of "profits in specific market". The concept doesn't really makes much sense though.

It also isn't a just concept if you think about it. Why should France (for example) get more tax just because Ireland made it possible to produce things cheaper? If they feel you should pay for access to the market tax that. It's really is not your business how much I spend in my country to produce goods I sell in yours. Trying to police that across borders, varying accounting regulations, labor laws etc. is just insanity.

Post reply on HN