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My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

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Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#31

Post by marmada »

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating.

I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv.

"pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided.

Then I switched to Poetry. Poetry kept on detecting my Python2 installation, but not my Python3 installation. It seemed like I had to use pyenv, which I didn't want to use, since that's another tool to use and setup on different machines.

I gave up and started rewriting the project (web scraper) in Node.js with Puppeteer.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#32

Post by lone_haxx0r »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from it.

npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#33

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

m000z0rz wrote: post #30
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Argument from authority doesn’t mean anything to me. I also don’t believe creating Django or running a Python consultancy endow someone with especially useful opinions of Python packaging tooling. (Not that the author isn’t knowledgeable, just you seem to think there’s an A implies B relationship between those two items and having good opinions about Python packaging, and there’s not). 2. Conda is quite widely use…

> huge banks, government agencies, universities > large Fortune 500 e-commerce companies Sorry, but argument from authority doesn't mean anything to me. In all seriousness though, you literally did not provide any logical reasons to think conda is better.

Giving a counterexample is not argument from authority. I did not respond to the parent comment to discuss any feature of conda, only to dispel the wrong claim that only mostly data science projects rely on it.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#34

Post by Evidlo »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

I've never quite understood the need for pyenv. Just keep a virtualenv with each project that you want to have an isolated environment.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#35

Post by zmmmmm »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

Just spent ~1 hour trying to set up a working python environment .... so yes. It's in the classic phase where it has an ecosystem with a bunch of problems that are small enough that they aren't being tackled comprehensively by the core language, but large enough that n different solutions are being created in parallel by different groups. The result is an explosion in complexity for anybody just trying to get their job done and ... it's actually very unpythonic!

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#36

Post by behnamoh »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

And not just Python, try writing a small script in Haskell or Clojure and you'll see how much burden there is to setup their environments.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#38

Post by kart23 »

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #32
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

Yes. As someone who has never dove deep into python, but has had some contact with it: the package manager ecosystem is the #1 thing keeping me away from it. npm sucks and all, but at least it just works and doesn't get in my way as much.

Coming the opposite way: having started programming on python and only started doing node.js stuff recently, npm is awesome.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#39

Post by madelyn »

I have never understood the need for all the different tools surrounding Python packaging, development environments, or things like Pipenv. For years, I have used Virtualenv and a script to create a virtual environment in my project folder. It's as simple as a node_modules folder, the confusion around it is puzzling to me.

Nowadays, using setuptools to create packages is really easy too, there's a great tutorial on the main Python site. It's not as easy as node.js, sure, but there's tools like Cookiecutter to remove the boilerplate from new packages.

requirements.txt files aren't very elegant, but they work well enough.

And with docker, all this is is even easier. The python + docker story is really nice.

Honestly I just love these basic tools and how they let me do my job without worrying about are they the latest and greatest. My python setup has been stable for years and I am so productive with it.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#40

Post by coleifer »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

He has some specific workflows that go beyond the standard pip/virtualenv tooling, but for most developers that's likely all you'll ever need.
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