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Software Updates

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Re: Software Updates

#31

Post by donatj »

I’ve been running Navicat 11 and 12 side by side for almost a year because of missing features and a wrecked UI, with the newer version supporting newer MariaDB features.

I just received a new work laptop and the license for 11 refused to deactivate, so I can’t activate it on my new Laptop.

Usually IT or whoever would contact support but with a couple buyouts under us it was licensed to a company that no longer exists.

Trying to talk IT into getting me a new expensive license for an outdated piece of software I’m not even sure they’ll sell you so I can have a couple convenience features is out of the question.

I’m very frustrated.

Re: Software Updates

#32

Post by drawkbox »

Jyaif wrote: post #2

Ultimately, the problem is that we are not good at creating stable APIs. If we did have stable APIs, then once something (a feature, or even entire software) is written agains this stable API it would be available forever. This is IMO one of the greatest challenge the software engineering field needs to solve.

It isn't just stable APIs but part of that is consistency of signatures, methods and usage.

APIs used to be cleaner and more atomic, today they seem like very leaky abstractions and breaking changes seem to be all the rage.

Previously, breaking changes were seen as a serious thing as it meant the API signatures/functionality was missing and needed to be broken.

Today, breaking changes is just part of the "move fast and break things" fad that developers don't even try to make a stable/consistent API anymore.

Lots of the problems are that development/engineering is no longer in the hands of developers/engineering/product people or designers, it is pushed by project managers and bizdev/MBAs/marketing/finance which is backwards. Good products should be built, with lots of thought into long living APIs and limited breaking changes and maintenance, that is then marketed and sold because it is value, instead we get the exact opposite. Rarely does software today ever get to a stable phase before the platform is version two'd, and there is no time added for software quality or solid products, features and underlying systems are in constant harvest and replanting.

Stable consistent APIs don't help lock-in and they don't sell books, conferences, or allow large companies more control. For larger companies to keep control they need to break standards, and regularly break their own platforms to keep people updating and invested, it sucks and is why software is so bad today.

Re: Software Updates

#33

Post by chme »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

> - The new Reddit layout is borderline unusable. They will lose the rest of the core users when they disable the old. subdomain

While I agree with you here, there is also a point that it might attract new and younger users with its more 'modern' look.

Personally I like sites like HN or the old style wikipedia for its information density and out of the way design. But that might just be the age talking here. People that grow up now that mostly scroll by touching the screen with their fingers have other requirements and ideas about good UI.

Re: Software Updates

#34

Post by Neil44 »

s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

The TeamViewer thing will be deliberate, because they’ve sold a load of perpetual licenses for older versions so incompatibility is how they get more money out of you.

Re: Software Updates

#35

Post by Crinus »

chme wrote: post #33
s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

> - The new Reddit layout is borderline unusable. They will lose the rest of the core users when they disable the old. subdomain While I agree with you here, there is also a point that it might attract new and younger users with its more 'modern' look. Personally I like sites like HN or the old style wikipedia for its information density and out of the way design. But that might just be the age talking here. People t…

I doubt age has anything to do with it (unless you imply younger people prefer shitty interfaces) since Reddit's new site is awful even on mobile. I always switch to i.reddit.com not only because it is much faster, but also because the new layout just unusable with somehow combining both oversized (even for mobile standards) elements and tiny elements all over the place, needing a ton of taps to just read comments (which means you'll often mistap something and the slow loading takes ages), popups getting in the way, etc.

It plainly sucks.

At least unlike other sites, they have the decency to leave the old UIs around, so not everything is bad.

Re: Software Updates

#36

Post by buboard »

Things i tried to keep using way longer than most:

-windows 7 (upgraded only for widi support - and i miss them)

- skype (i d never upgrade if i could)

- photoshop standalone (still use it)

- office 2007 ( still use it)

- dropbox (no option there)

- old reddit

- iphone 6

- jquery (plan to avoid npm until it dies of natural causes)

- windows movie maker / photos

In fact it s getting harder to think of things that are clearly better.

Not only are newer versions slower, they re lacking features that were working just fine. Something happened in the past 4 years and suddenly worse became cool again. There s def a worrying trend.

My theory: the mobilification of everything is destroying tech. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy: make everything mobile-friendly so more people switch to mobile-only (why?). Second, mobile has terrible user feedback mechanisms. It's too burdensome to send feedback and the apps are so limited that there's physically no space for asking to add new features on the screen. That's why it's largely desktop apps that are affected - not server apps.

(Ironically, table-based HN has the best responsive behavior for reading text on mobile than any "responsive" site).

Re: Software Updates

#37

Post by Crinus »

drawkbox wrote: post #32
Jyaif wrote: post #2

Ultimately, the problem is that we are not good at creating stable APIs. If we did have stable APIs, then once something (a feature, or even entire software) is written agains this stable API it would be available forever. This is IMO one of the greatest challenge the software engineering field needs to solve.

It isn't just stable APIs but part of that is consistency of signatures, methods and usage. APIs used to be cleaner and more atomic, today they seem like very leaky abstractions and breaking changes seem to be all the rage. Previously, breaking changes were seen as a serious thing as it meant the API signatures/functionality was missing and needed to be broken. Today, breaking changes is just part of the "move fast a…

> Stable consistent APIs don't help lock-in

I do not think this is true, Windows has a lock-in on desktop explicitly because it has a stable API that allowed it to amass a huge library of software that keeps people relying on it to get that software working.

For the largest majority of people, Windows' worth is its stable API (even if they do not realize it).

Re: Software Updates

#38

Post by buboard »

chme wrote: post #33
s9w wrote: post #17

Software getting worse, just out of my head: - VS2019 removed at least two important features from VS2017 (export of profiler results and the concurrency profiler) - Firefox "new" extension API still means you can't remove the top tab bar from tree style tabs (best FF extension) without hacks - Current Dropbox versions are incredibly invasive. They popup when opening a word document. When pluggin in my Camera. And no…

> - The new Reddit layout is borderline unusable. They will lose the rest of the core users when they disable the old. subdomain While I agree with you here, there is also a point that it might attract new and younger users with its more 'modern' look. Personally I like sites like HN or the old style wikipedia for its information density and out of the way design. But that might just be the age talking here. People t…

If anything, ADHD-ed kids will find the older interface snappier. The newer interface is literally for dummies who don't even know how to use reddit-markup. Kids don't care about this stuff

Re: Software Updates

#39

Post by andrepd »

Crinus wrote: post #35
chme wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - The new Reddit layout is borderline unusable. They will lose the rest of the core users when they disable the old. subdomain While I agree with you here, there is also a point that it might attract new and younger users with its more 'modern' look. Personally I like sites like HN or the old style wikipedia for its information density and out of the way design. But that might just be the age talking here. People t…

I doubt age has anything to do with it (unless you imply younger people prefer shitty interfaces) since Reddit's new site is awful even on mobile. I always switch to i.reddit.com not only because it is much faster, but also because the new layout just unusable with somehow combining both oversized (even for mobile standards) elements and tiny elements all over the place, needing a ton of taps to just read comments (w…

When a pocket supercomputer takes 10 seconds to display a list of comments in your website (and your previous version did it in 0.5s), it's time to stop and reflect how it went so wrong.

Re: Software Updates

#40

Post by buboard »

rgrau wrote: post #29

The two oldest pieces of software I currently use (Emacs and Postgres) manage changes pretty well and somehow, they now scale at a ratio of features, speed, and size that's pretty decent. They probably evolve slower than newer younger players because of their stability (and baggage). I'd be interested in knowing what they do right.

> what they do right

Everything! But most importanlty, the people who make them use them. There are so many bugs in skype nowadays that it's fair to assume its developers have switched to something else!

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