It’s the End of California as We Know It • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#31

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Somehow I feel this is not only a California problem but the whole US. The country seems to be incapable of or unwilling to address fundamental problems. Instead you are getting endless political fights while infrastructure is falling apart. The contrasts in Silicon Valley and LA are extreme. You have some of the richest people in the world living in beautiful mansions with cities around them full of homeless people,…

Nowhere is perfect, but I definitely think California is uniquely bad for the US.

My pet theory is that small units govern themselves nest, and I'd support splitting California into as many smaller states as possible.

Of course, a state where building a 4 story housing building takes on average math.inf will not get it together to dissolve itself in anyone's lifetime.

So I guess things will just continue on this track.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#32

Post by gduffy » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

jdhn wrote: post #8

To paraphrase James Carville, "It's the people, stupid". It seems like there's a lot of Californians who talk about sustainability, but then turn right around and vote in people who continue to promote suburban sprawl, single family houses, zoning that doesn't promote density, and lack of investment in public transportation.

No offense, but your thinking here is actually a bigger part of the problem.

There is nothing fundamentally unsustainable about suburbs, single family homes, low density, or cars. 50% of the USA is totally uninhabited, and it is possible today to build a totally off-grid and sustainable single family home / suburb in the majority of it.

You can even capture carbon in concrete. Don't prescribe solutions just because you prefer them, set incentives and goals to favor the right outcomes and let people decide and optimize how to do it.

Your urban utopia is my hellscape, and my suburban utopia is yours. The good news is, this is America, and we can both live here. Good fences make good neighbors.

P.S. most of the $2 trillion real estate market in the Bay Area where I have lived for 12 years exists precisely because our politicians DON'T promote further development, sustainable or otherwise. Most of what's here is decaying, old, unsustainable, whether it is high or low density, and nobody can afford to improve it because all the tradespeople got priced out and left years ago.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#33

Post by baggy_trough » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

jdhn wrote: post #28

baggy_trough wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California's government isn't so hot either.

Is this a symptom of one party governance? It's certainly not because of a lack of money or progressiveness. If anything, I would expect that the California state government would be leading in all of these issues.

It's almost as though progressivism and throwing money at problems doesn't really work that well.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#34

Post by pcwalton » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

_jahh wrote: post #18

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Somehow I feel this is not only a California problem but the whole US. The country seems to be incapable of or unwilling to address fundamental problems. Instead you are getting endless political fights while infrastructure is falling apart. The contrasts in Silicon Valley and LA are extreme. You have some of the richest people in the world living in beautiful mansions with cities around them full of homeless people,…

it's funny because what you describe sounds accurate of the megametrapolis of the global south. Terrible public infrastructure the rich avoid, and the poor suffer through. Sad the U.S. seems to be moving that way having lived on the investment of the 30-70s.

Yes, it's important to remember that the Gini coefficients of Florida (leans red) and California (blue) are 46th and 47th most unequal in the country respectively (0.485 and 0.490). Texas (red) isn't much better, at 39th with a Gini of 0.480. Inequality isn't a liberal/conservative, blue/red, or California-specific issue: it's a U.S. issue.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#35

Post by defterGoose » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:35 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #23

lacker wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of this is national politics pushing out state politics. Every statewide California race recently has felt like a foregone conclusion. Either the Democrat beats the Republican by a huge margin, or one Democrat beats another Democrat while the two agree on all policies. California just doesn’t have the one-party-against-another politics that make democracy work.

Even if it’s always a Democrat they must still be competing with each other just as fiercely to get selected to be the Democratic candidate?

There's still cooperation in the party, and while the Democratic Party is a husk of its former principled self, the GOP has exploded into flames.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#36

Post by BurningFrog » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #30

It's funny because having lived outside of the US, it has always blown my mind how extraordinarily well California/the US handles natural disasters like wildfires. The worst wildfire season ever in a state of 40M people, 18,000 buildings destroyed and fewer than 100 people died?!? Similarly the infrastructure/public services are quite incredible in the US. I grew up with daily 6 hour blackouts and water brought in by…

Previous years, the response has been a bit off, but the 2019 season the Powers That Be have been ready!

Perhaps because these fires are closer to the big city power centers, but I'm sure also "practice makes perfect"!

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#37

Post by defterGoose » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:37 AM UTC

davidscolgan wrote: post #5

I'm a freelance web developer from rural Indiana and want to move somewhere in the US I can at least possibly stay for a decade or more. Does anyone recommend a city/state that will survive the climate apocalypse, that is well managed, and/or that is doing everything the author of this article is saying California isn't doing? I've had a hard time figuring out where to live since I don't have to be anywhere in partic…

Californian originally from Lincoln, NE. Moving home is looking more and more enticing with each passing year...

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#38

Post by cma » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

Animats wrote: post #15

baggy_trough wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we even agree what the fix is?

A lot of tree trimming and removal. Lots of heavy equipment. Firebreaks a mile wide. More full-time Cal Fire people and equipment. Recycled 747s as water tankers (there's already one.) More underground power lines. Not really that hard.

Maybe drone fire surveillance and rapid response.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#39

Post by taiwanboy » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Somehow I feel this is not only a California problem but the whole US. The country seems to be incapable of or unwilling to address fundamental problems. Instead you are getting endless political fights while infrastructure is falling apart. The contrasts in Silicon Valley and LA are extreme. You have some of the richest people in the world living in beautiful mansions with cities around them full of homeless people,…

I just mentioned in another thread that The most fundamental issue US needs to solve for inequality in the US is....whether US can continue to allow corporations to reap the benefits of a strong democracy coupled with the most vibrant economy, while at the same time, bankrupt the communities by continuing to ship jobs overseas and avoid paying any sort of taxes back to the communities where they make a profit.

There are only two parties in the US right now. And one is for globalization. And the other is for stronger US labor unions.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#40

Post by dickeytk » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 2:38 AM UTC

defterGoose wrote: post #29

Reedx wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm concerned that what we're seeing around the country is institutional decay. We've been increasingly replacing competence with people who tell us what we want to hear. Entertainment over substance. Short-term, feel good solutions over thoughtful long-term solutions. Now the results of that are starting to manifest.

Always an appropriate time to remember that Rome didn't fall in a day. We seem to be experiencing the proverbial frog-boil IMHO.

that frog only exists within proverbs! real frogs jump out!