These headlines should all read “says 85 year old man who didn’t examine his body.”
He examined the body. Re-read the article.
Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
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Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#32I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…
> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…
> The prison where Epstein died was understaffed, and the guards tasked with watching him had no training on suicide watches.
This could have been intentional, fyi.
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#33I tend to be very skeptical of claims of conspiracy and conspiracy theories in general but I've yet to hear a reasonable theory to explain how Epstein could have killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility. A friend in law enforcement related a story about someone on suicide watch who managed to kill himself by eating/shoving massive amount of toilet paper down his throat and the…
People kill themselves when under observation all the time.
The people observing are negligent, the systems don't work, people think 5 minute of 15 minute obs are sufficient.
It's not in any way uncommon.
Statistical methodology hides the true numbers. People talk about "suicide" when they should be asking about "suspected self inflicted death".
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#34This is not the head pathologist who performed the autopsy or anything. This is an pathologist hired by Epstein's family who is notable for saying dramatic things in an apparent attempt to get news time: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/michael-brown-shooting/who... Furthermore, there's nothing new here - all of this was known months ago. The damage in question - Baden's smoking gun - is not uncommon in suicides eit…
From the article: > Dr. Michael Baden, one of the world’s leading forensic pathologists, viewed Jeffrey Epstein’s body and was present at the autopsy, which was held the day after Epstein was found dead at the notorious Metropolitan Correctional Center in downtown Manhattan. It looks like he was at least present at the autopsy
You're right, I was incorrect there - I was confused because he wasn't on the medical team for the autopsy. Looks like he was there as an observer, being paid by Epstein's family - which also introduces a fairly significant conflict of interest.
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#35I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…
I would think anyone privy to the situation would be handled the same way, by threat of death to them or loved ones. Maybe a little cash to ease the mental burden. I'd like to think I could withstand such a threat like a fictional hero, but I have my doubts. I hope to never know for sure.
I do happen to know that for me to ignore murder took nothing more than the implied threat that I would be murdered myself by the team doing the murder. I learned my lesson; getting away with murder is not hard for people that are good at it.
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#36Epstein’s death seems the most overt taunt about ruling class impunity in my lifetime. Not only in its circumstances, but in the kind of shifting, threadbare cover stories about everyone with whom he was associated. Bill Gates, for example, had staff overlap between his foundation and Epstein, (including one who was named in Epstein’s will!) and was able to diminish these connections in major media outlets with almost no pushback.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/business/jeffrey-epstein-...
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#37I'm fascinated by the idea that someone could have killed and successfully covered up a murder this high profile. How do you handle the guards? How do you keep the other inmates quiet? Can you get away with bribing a single guard or is a larger operation needed? If you bribe people, how do you get the money to them? How do you keep them quiet when the inevitable investigation happens? I don't think it's impossible, b…
It's likely Epstein was tied up with CIA. Once they enter the picture, everything's fair game.
https://observer.com/2019/07/jeffrey-epstein-spy-intelligenc...
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#38To not make a snippy comment about the media treatment about it because that would be tiring, I'd like to instead draw an imperfect parallel to narcopolitics in Latin America. Kingpins from El Chapo to Escobar were notorious for getting away with just about anything, the former for his tunnel and the latter for actually dropping bombs. For a lot of folks on the other side of the border, perhaps they thought it was so…
I'd like to remind people that "conspiracy theory" was a propaganda term coined and spread by the CIA in order to discredit people skeptical of the United States.
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epstein was taken off suicide watch though. Edit: the rate of suicide is still pretty darn low, and lots of other stuff worth looking in to. Just pointing out that he wasn't on suicide watch at the time.
Should he have been?
That's not the issue with regards to the parent comment. The parent said he couldn't believe someone could kill themselves in a bare cell meant to stop people from suicide, but that's not where he was.
Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…
> The prison where Epstein died was understaffed, and the guards tasked with watching him had no training on suicide watches. This could have been intentional, fyi.
I would wager that those same conditions were true long before Epstein ever set foot in there as well.