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Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

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Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#31

Post by necubi »

ezoe wrote: post #22

The very interesting trend right now is there are so many new climbing shoes vendors start appearing within a couple of years. I suspect it's because the Olympic accepted free climbing. I was skeptical at first on these freshly new shoes vendors, but when I tried out their products, it's on-par quality with the existing vendors. Even more, often time, these newcomers has far durable product than the traditional vendo…

My primary shoe for bouldering is the Scarpa Drago, which has 2.5mm rubber. The toe rubber wears out after ~3 months. That's pretty fast for a $200 shoe, but it can be resoled several times (~$40 for a pair) for a total cost of ~$320/year. To me, that's worth it for the comfort and performance.

But I'm not sure this is really a trend overall; there are still plenty of high-end shoes from Scarpa, La Sportiva, etc. with thicker rubber.

Definitely great to see all of the new entrants though. It's amazing how much climbing shoes have evolved even in just the past decade.

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#32

Post by bumblebee4 »

a1pulley wrote: post #4

"And to return to Alex Honnold, perhaps the most important lesson a free-market loving economist should draw is that sometimes people will do extraordinary things without the motivation of money." My dad likes to visit the same coffee shop every morning, where he sees more or less the same people. He likes to show his friends pictures of his son on big routes in Yosemite or the Andes, preferring the ones with danglin…

Maybe it's just their way of saying that they are impressed? As in: Your son seems to be so good that others for sure want to sponsor him.

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#35

Post by carsonbaker »

shantly wrote: post #21
hogFeast wrote: post #13

Has anyone else found that people who are really into rock climbing always feel the need to bring climbing up?

It the new skiing. Or maybe sailing and golfing, to a smaller extent. A thing well-off professionals go do (and yes, not just them, same as the other things) then come back and talk about.

You may be thinking of alpinism, where this is perhaps a little true. It's not true at all of rock climbing.

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#36

Post by remus »

jasonkester wrote: post #24

It still amazes me how climbing gear continues to find ways to improve every year. The pads I land on and the shoes I climb in today are undeniably better than the ones I was using just five years ago. Take shoes. Here's what the brand new Scarpa Instinct looked like nine years ago: https://www.climbing.com/gear/new-and-notable-scarpa-instinc... Notice the tiny scrap of rubber they stuck on to the top of the thing. T…

While I agree with your point Im not sure toe patches are the best example, shoes like the Five Ten V10 and the dragons had big toe patches well before the instincts came out.

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#37

Post by heydabop »

ezoe wrote: post #22

The very interesting trend right now is there are so many new climbing shoes vendors start appearing within a couple of years. I suspect it's because the Olympic accepted free climbing. I was skeptical at first on these freshly new shoes vendors, but when I tried out their products, it's on-par quality with the existing vendors. Even more, often time, these newcomers has far durable product than the traditional vendo…

>My other complaint for a particular famous Italian climbing shoes vendor is, that they don't use strong glue.

My favorites shoes are resoled shoes from said Italian vendor. Wonderful once they've got good glue on em

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#38

Post by ticmasta »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
a1pulley wrote: post #4

"And to return to Alex Honnold, perhaps the most important lesson a free-market loving economist should draw is that sometimes people will do extraordinary things without the motivation of money." My dad likes to visit the same coffee shop every morning, where he sees more or less the same people. He likes to show his friends pictures of his son on big routes in Yosemite or the Andes, preferring the ones with danglin…

> sometimes people will do extraordinary things without the motivation of money Spending money and doing things will always be more fun than earning money. People earn money to spend it on pursuits like rock climbing, even if climbing the rock itself is free, buying the equipment and taking time off to climb it costs money, so those extraordinary things were done thanks to an earlier motivation to make money.

People will spend money to going on a working vacation in a developing country with primitive facilities, or pay to drive a handsom cab, or many other far more pedestrian activities than big wall climbing. Money should be used to do things that are personally important and satisfy deep values and goals. Forget about those who think you're supposed to use money solely for buying "stuff".

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#39

Post by cc81 »

nlfwhulsdhouv wrote: post #25
Mikeb85 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sometimes people will do extraordinary things without the motivation of money Spending money and doing things will always be more fun than earning money. People earn money to spend it on pursuits like rock climbing, even if climbing the rock itself is free, buying the equipment and taking time off to climb it costs money, so those extraordinary things were done thanks to an earlier motivation to make money.

Rock climbing has a very long and storied history of climbers living on absolute scraps to get by, just so they can climb more. This persists in the culture to this day. Yvonne Chouinard, depicted in the article, was one of those climbers. He tells stories of eating catfood and stealing leftovers from the hotels in Yosemite Valley to survive. While you're right that making money helps people live an easier life more…

I like Alex Honnold's answer to "Do all rock climbers live in vans?"

https://youtu.be/kDUeh8nyLT0?t=159

Re: Rock climbing and the economics of innovation

#40

Post by ezoe »

necubi wrote: post #31
ezoe wrote: post #22

The very interesting trend right now is there are so many new climbing shoes vendors start appearing within a couple of years. I suspect it's because the Olympic accepted free climbing. I was skeptical at first on these freshly new shoes vendors, but when I tried out their products, it's on-par quality with the existing vendors. Even more, often time, these newcomers has far durable product than the traditional vendo…

My primary shoe for bouldering is the Scarpa Drago, which has 2.5mm rubber. The toe rubber wears out after ~3 months. That's pretty fast for a $200 shoe, but it can be resoled several times (~$40 for a pair) for a total cost of ~$320/year. To me, that's worth it for the comfort and performance. But I'm not sure this is really a trend overall; there are still plenty of high-end shoes from Scarpa, La Sportiva, etc. wit…

If you want the absolute best to win the climbing competition, that's a viable strategy and totally worth the money for.

But for a casual climber like me whose best grade is 3級(Japanese grade standard, equivalent of 6a+/6b or V3) and climb once per week in a indoor gym, it's a diminishing return.

I want my shoes to be durable enough for at least 9 months. The resole is cheaper but necessary effort for the resole(bring shoes to the resole service, negotiating how I would like to be resoled) is a quite hassle for me. So I'd rather buy a new shoes.

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