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Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

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Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#31

Post by goatinaboat »

r_singh wrote: post #28
goatinaboat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not bias, it’s experience. TCS is a strategic partner for projects like the British Rail Network. That project is a disaster of overblown budgets and under delivery. Like everything these companies touch. But the imaginary savings earned a few Western managers big bonuses before they quickly moved on before the chickens came home to roost.

In that case, TCS will pay a price for it in the long run.

They will not, the British taxpayers will, just as for every project outsourced to Tata, Capita, or anywhere else.

Every penny of revenue earned by those companies is by fraud.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#32

Post by iamsb »

r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

Here is an anecdote which might help you understand why.

One of my classmates joined infy out of college. His job for the first one year was - email the list of files changed in the day to the client. This friend was called newton in the college, one of the smartest person around. And he was doing one of the most boring job. Client was paying more than 3000 USD per month for this. Of course he automated the work on second day, used time to study for CAT and left to enroll in IIMA.

Not implying that there isnt anything good with these big companies, but there are lot of such stories. This particular one sounds more like defrauding the client more than anything else to be honest.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#33

Post by r_singh »

iamsb wrote: post #32
r_singh wrote: post #15

I can't help but notice the bias people from the west tend to have against Indian outsourcing companies. They have issues and downsides, sure. Major long term downsides, as an Indian programmer (not working for any of these companies), I agree (just like outsourcing to ANY company, be it American e.g. Cognizant). Comments talking about Infosys/TCS, not being a brand: programmers are not Infosys' customers, in fact it…

Here is an anecdote which might help you understand why. One of my classmates joined infy out of college. His job for the first one year was - email the list of files changed in the day to the client. This friend was called newton in the college, one of the smartest person around. And he was doing one of the most boring job. Client was paying more than 3000 USD per month for this. Of course he automated the work on s…

If you consider overcharging (perceivably) to be akin to defrauding, then a lot more doctors, pharmacy cos. and lawyers are defrauding clients than outsourcing cos. Even though the repercussions of them defrauding their clients is a lot higher. Also it's a fraud because of the oaths they take, of which outsourcing cos. are obliged to take none.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#34

Post by r_singh »

goatinaboat wrote: post #31
r_singh wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, TCS will pay a price for it in the long run.

They will not, the British taxpayers will, just as for every project outsourced to Tata, Capita, or anywhere else. Every penny of revenue earned by those companies is by fraud.

Not sure what your definition of fraud is (for me it's more like what the British India company did). Wining a tender process that probably needs fixing (because it's obsolete) is not fraud.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#35

Post by r_singh »

I see a lot of comments here attributing outsourcing firms to fraud. Let's remember that these cos. win contracts fair and square by taking advantage of myopic tendering processes.

If there's something to blame then it's obsolete tender process that make it impossible for quality vendors to compete or for outsourcing firms to make realising proposals.

Overpromising and underdelivering is not fraud. Fraud is what VW, FB and Theranos and the likes have done.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#36

Post by close04 »

r_singh wrote: post #34
goatinaboat wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will not, the British taxpayers will, just as for every project outsourced to Tata, Capita, or anywhere else. Every penny of revenue earned by those companies is by fraud.

Not sure what your definition of fraud is (for me it's more like what the British India company did). Wining a tender process that probably needs fixing (because it's obsolete) is not fraud.

Doing it with the intention of underdelivering and ballooning costs and time to make more money is fraud though. And make no mistake, no outsourcing company goes to a tender intending to be on time and on budget. It’s not good business for them.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#37

Post by r_singh »

close04 wrote: post #36
r_singh wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what your definition of fraud is (for me it's more like what the British India company did). Wining a tender process that probably needs fixing (because it's obsolete) is not fraud.

Doing it with the intention of underdelivering and ballooning costs and time to make more money is fraud though. And make no mistake, no outsourcing company goes to a tender intending to be on time and on budget. It’s not good business for them.

And just how commonly do we see such[1] fraud across any business or industry?

Cough, pharmaceutical cos, doctors, social media & search giants, car manufacturing giants. Any of these ring a bell?

[1]As in, the above (your) definition of fraud i.e. misleading customers, by deliberately under delivering and over promising. With this definition, many businesses and accepted practices are fraud.

IMO, true fraud is what VW with their cheating device. Facebook did with integrating WhatsApp profiles. Theranos did with fake IP. Opioid manufacturers do by indirectly incentivising doctors. Don't you think so too?

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#38

Post by Cthulhu_ »

goatinaboat wrote: post #12

None of these companies - Infosys, Tata, Wipro etc - actually has a business beyond convincing technologically illiterate Western senior managers, by whatever means, to outsource the core of their businesses for short term gain.

Short term gain being firing their in-house IT staff, only to realize they're stuck in a 5-year contract.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#39

Post by esotericimpl »

throwaway77384 wrote: post #13

I have only ever run into dealing with InfoSys' services (back in 2011 or so they provided the entire media / marketing / advertising tech stack for Diageo, called Neo at the time). Complete black-box. Impossible to work with. Impossible to get documentation. We literally had to debug via crash reports delivered to us every 24h. Of course it was ALWAYS their machine images somehow differing from their environments, s…

I worked with them on crown royal.com and everything you say is 100% true

Nothing ever worked and their technical stack was an absolute joke.

Eventually the agency lost the business due to not delivering, which was solely due to their platform not doing anything promised by infosys.

Re: Infosys shares drop to 10-month low as whistle-blowers target CEO

#40

Post by nkrisc »

r_singh wrote: post #24
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a common problem across all big consulting companies, it's not specific to India. I think the real problem is that many of these corporates haven't realised how important IT is to their business. The idea that a bank should outsource development is ridiculous, most of their interaction with customers is going to be through these systems. If they want to differentiate themselves from their competitors then they…

> The idea that a bank should outsource development is ridiculous, most of their interaction with customers is going to be through these systems. If they want to differentiate themselves from their competitors then they need strong IT. I agree with this too. However, this arises 2 doubts in my head: 1. Is Apple outsourcing manufacturing to Foxconn any different from banks outsourcing their IT?[1] 2. Is hiring offshor…

Regarding Apple, they seem to have a very close and special relationship with Foxconn in order to ensure the quality of production. So while it is a similar arrangement, it seems very different to me.
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