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New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

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Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#31

Post by saiya-jin »

Recurecur wrote: post #30
reacweb wrote: post #28

All these images are terrible, but it doesn't match my understanding of radioactivity. I thought the lessons learned from Hiroshima and Nagazaki was that radioactivity was causing very few mutations (far less than expected), but instead was causing mainly sterilities. I am not an expert, but teratogene effects are generally caused by chemical products. If uranium is similar to lead, it should cause neurologic disease…

Agreed. It's much more likely the deformities are the result of chemical exposure or other factors. The scary sounding "4.5 billion year half life" of DU is synonymous with it not being very radioactive at all. DU is toxic, but the main hazard is inhaling the dust. That's likely not a big issue unless you're near impacting rounds...

What the heck? The article clearly says: Every round of DU ammunition leaves a residue of uranium dust on everything it hits.

We talk about semi-desert environment where dust flies all around, and it doesn't become easily locked in soil like in more humid environment. If you live a kilometer downwind from place where an A-10 smashed some iraqi tanks with DU ammunition, you have clear source of exposure.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#32

Post by saiya-jin »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #27
Santosh83 wrote: post #26

And this is why China is hated passionately in the West. Because it is the only credible potential deterrence in the future against the West doing whatever they want on whomever the want (outside their territories that is). It is of course possible that China itself will turn into another hegemonic military power with scant regard for non-Chinese lives the way the US has been for decades, but nevertheless in a multi-…

> And this is why China is hated passionately in the West No it isn't, it's the government that we find deeply grubby. And this subject is unrelated to china.

I wonder where is a deep hate for other brutal dictatorships du jour like Saudi Arabia, a great friend of US no matter how many atrocities they do internally or externally.

China deserves all the bashing it gets (and some more), but news of past weeks are very biased only and precisely against it. Like it would be, I dunno, orchestrated or something.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#33

Post by saiya-jin »

fsh wrote: post #25
infinitone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals? You're kidding right? Before the US invasion, the largest protests in the world happened all over the world against it and it didn't do anything. > Social movement researchers have described the 15 February protest as "the largest protest event in human history" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_prot.…

Don't forget that the vast majority of US citizens supported the invasion [1] while the rest of the world protested. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/2008/03/19/public-attitudes-towa...

Yeah, I recall meeting a US guy in Nepal high on Annapurna circuit trek (meaning the person was not as close-minded as many that didn't travel much, he did intensively over whole world before) around 2008, he was praising US invasions in Iraq and Afghanistan stating something about how local population would make great christians. He was a Texan and big supporter of GW Bush. That left me speechless for a while.

Sample of 1, but it clearly showed me that with some people, you just can't get the message across. Doesn't matter how smart they are, what they experienced, it just doesn't work. I tried (not too hard though) and failed.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#34

Post by tempguy9999 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #32
tempguy9999 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this is why China is hated passionately in the West No it isn't, it's the government that we find deeply grubby. And this subject is unrelated to china.

I wonder where is a deep hate for other brutal dictatorships du jour like Saudi Arabia, a great friend of US no matter how many atrocities they do internally or externally. China deserves all the bashing it gets (and some more), but news of past weeks are very biased only and precisely against it. Like it would be, I dunno, orchestrated or something.

> like Saudi Arabia

It gets some hate, whether it's proper measure thereof, I dunno. Good question.

> China deserves all the bashing it gets

For clarity it would be helpful not to conflate the entirety of china with the chinese govt.

> are very biased only and precisely against it

Probably talking about "crushed bodies and broken bones". Rather sets the tone, don't you think?

OK, genuinely: give us some good news stories that are genuine (ie. not chinese government propaganda). It would be nice to hear another side.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#35

Post by StanislavPetrov »

ip26 wrote: post #12
josho wrote: post #6

With a “half-life of 4.5 billion years” does that mean these areas are going to be permanent toxic waste lands? Regardless why isn’t there a growing movement to call the perpetrators of this war criminals?

If the half-life is that long, exposure to direct environmental radiation is probably not that big of a concern- the sieverts will be very low- and the main harm comes through ingesting, inhaling, etc. I would wonder if things like dust abatement, water filtration, and food washing would be used to manage the issue in the future. As a point of comparison, regular U-238 is present at low levels all over the place in C…

"Dust abatement" is quite a different story in the deserts of Iraq than in Colorodo.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#36

Post by dev_dull »

dmix wrote: post #11
dev_dull wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully the war in Iraq was the last time our intelligence agencies mislead the public.

It's fascinating to reread just how bad these stories were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries > In March 2003 [..] it reportedly took International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) officials only a matter of hours to determine that these documents were fake. IAEA experts discovered indications of a crude forgery, such as the use of incorrect names of Nigerien officials. The CIA and foreign intelligence…

I sincerely hope I never hear the phrase "Russian dossier" again in my lifetime. The CIA seems to follow every place this phrase shows up.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#37

Post by tempguy9999 »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #34
saiya-jin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder where is a deep hate for other brutal dictatorships du jour like Saudi Arabia, a great friend of US no matter how many atrocities they do internally or externally. China deserves all the bashing it gets (and some more), but news of past weeks are very biased only and precisely against it. Like it would be, I dunno, orchestrated or something.

> like Saudi Arabia It gets some hate, whether it's proper measure thereof, I dunno. Good question. > China deserves all the bashing it gets For clarity it would be helpful not to conflate the entirety of china with the chinese govt. > are very biased only and precisely against it Probably talking about "crushed bodies and broken bones". Rather sets the tone, don't you think? OK, genuinely: give us some good news sto…

@saiya-jin: You complained about anti-china news, I asked you for something more positive - I'm still interested.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#38

Post by ip26 »

rootw0rm wrote: post #24
ip26 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the half-life is that long, exposure to direct environmental radiation is probably not that big of a concern- the sieverts will be very low- and the main harm comes through ingesting, inhaling, etc. I would wonder if things like dust abatement, water filtration, and food washing would be used to manage the issue in the future. As a point of comparison, regular U-238 is present at low levels all over the place in C…

this is a factual comment. most of DU's toxicity is chemical in nature. that doesn't make the pictures of deformed babes any easier to behold, tho. also, alpha emitters are basically harmless until they're ingested/inhaled.

Yes, I hope my comment is not taken as defending DU as being OK. I was specifically replying to the idea of this becoming some kind of new Chernobyl exclusion zone.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#39

Post by saiya-jin »

tempguy9999 wrote: post #37
tempguy9999 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like Saudi Arabia It gets some hate, whether it's proper measure thereof, I dunno. Good question. > China deserves all the bashing it gets For clarity it would be helpful not to conflate the entirety of china with the chinese govt. > are very biased only and precisely against it Probably talking about "crushed bodies and broken bones". Rather sets the tone, don't you think? OK, genuinely: give us some good news sto…

@saiya-jin: You complained about anti-china news, I asked you for something more positive - I'm still interested.

I don't have any china-positive news per se and I don't follow them closely enough. Just pointed some feelings I have about China being all over the news these days. I do care more about stuff like Turkish offensive into Syria or continuous Yemen massacre orchestrated by Saudis.

Don't know about any Chinese external meddling like this, I guess we can call it a positive story considering these days.

Re: New Study Documents Depleted Uranium Impacts on Children in Iraq

#40

Post by Santosh83 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #39
tempguy9999 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@saiya-jin: You complained about anti-china news, I asked you for something more positive - I'm still interested.

I don't have any china-positive news per se and I don't follow them closely enough. Just pointed some feelings I have about China being all over the news these days. I do care more about stuff like Turkish offensive into Syria or continuous Yemen massacre orchestrated by Saudis. Don't know about any Chinese external meddling like this, I guess we can call it a positive story considering these days.

Right but of course for the Western world China's largely non-violent crackdown on the Hong Kong protestors (with even the proposed law being repealed today) is a much more heinous atrocity than millions of Yemeni children literally starving to death because of SA's arrogant assurance of Western backing at any cost.
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