When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested • Hacker News Board

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#31

Post by derekp7 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #9

> His friend bailed him out the next morning, but at the bond hearing, the judge granted the $500, minus court fees, to the hospital. I know it's not the subject of this, but this sounds like it's probably illegal? He's seizing money that was supposed to be returned to someone other than the defendant.

Yeah, that's the thing they don't tell you up front. When you bail someone out, you are legally giving them that money. So if the money is owed to something else (such as fines / court costs, or a legal judgement) those funds are redirected in the end.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#32

Post by hu3 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:41 PM UTC

hestipod wrote: post #3

My life was ruined by badly done, and even worse ultimately unneeded surgery. That privilege initially cost me many thousands, along with career and insurance going away, and the subsequent struggle to survive since has cost multiples of that. My entire future billed away. For a time I was able to avoid collectors because of a significant savings a frugal life had left me, but as time goes on you have to choose betwe…

An extreme option to consider before the edge gets you:

Move to another country. One that has free healthcare even to foreigners. Yes, they exist. Brazil is one. I'm not sure but I've heard Spain might too.

Granted you wont get the best and most responsive health care in the world but at least you'll get some and for free.

Things are different out there. Worse in some aspects, better in others.

Just something to think about. Stay strong.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#33

Post by CharlesW » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #8

Out of topic but they seem to be using film photography to illustrate that article. Medium Format if not large. Very nice to see.

The photographer: https://www.edmundfountain.com/ABOUT/

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#34

Post by 77pt77 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

> Judges don’t need a law degree in Kansas, or many other states, to preside over cases like these

You can't make this up!

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#35

Post by bpodgursky » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:43 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #30

_jal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not very different. People don't show up for a variety of reasons, including inability[1] and plaintiff shenanigans[2]. But yes, people looking for a reason to blame the victim will use process arguments like that to ignore the reality of what is happening. [1] We're talking about people with medical issues and no money; that can mean no car or no house or no personal mobility. [2] As anecdata, someone I know w…

I was sued and the order to appear never arrived. I spoke to the judge and she said it doesn't matter. If it was sent out with USPS, it's considered delivered. They don't have to prove it was even delivered.

This article was clear that the judge required defendants to be properly served. I can't speak to everywhere, but I thought that was pretty standard practice.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#36

Post by hestipod » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:45 PM UTC

hu3 wrote: post #32

hestipod wrote: post #3

My life was ruined by badly done, and even worse ultimately unneeded surgery. That privilege initially cost me many thousands, along with career and insurance going away, and the subsequent struggle to survive since has cost multiples of that. My entire future billed away. For a time I was able to avoid collectors because of a significant savings a frugal life had left me, but as time goes on you have to choose betwe…

An extreme option to consider before the edge gets you: Move to another country. One that has free healthcare even to foreigners. Yes, they exist. Brazil is one. I'm not sure but I've heard Spain might too. Granted you wont get the best and most responsive health care in the world but at least you'll get some and for free. Things are different out there. Worse in some aspects, better in others. Just something to thin…

I've been trying to move back abroad since I returned to the USA. It's not as easy as people think in the best of times to immigrate, let alone when you are in such bad shape all around. No place takes broken and relatively broke people. Believe me I'd have been gone years ago if I could have managed it. I've thought about extreme ideas like asylum but my research shows it's never granted to people from such countries as mine and for such reasons. The system is taxed enough with war refugees and people even worse off. I'd happily trade passports with anyone who thinks this is the place to be. There is just not a clear path to a sustainable life anywhere now.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#37

Post by 77pt77 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:49 PM UTC

mnm1 wrote: post #30

_jal wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not very different. People don't show up for a variety of reasons, including inability[1] and plaintiff shenanigans[2]. But yes, people looking for a reason to blame the victim will use process arguments like that to ignore the reality of what is happening. [1] We're talking about people with medical issues and no money; that can mean no car or no house or no personal mobility. [2] As anecdata, someone I know w…

I was sued and the order to appear never arrived. I spoke to the judge and she said it doesn't matter. If it was sent out with USPS, it's considered delivered. They don't have to prove it was even delivered.

Not even registered mail?

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#38

Post by 77pt77 » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:50 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #35

mnm1 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was sued and the order to appear never arrived. I spoke to the judge and she said it doesn't matter. If it was sent out with USPS, it's considered delivered. They don't have to prove it was even delivered.

This article was clear that the judge required defendants to be properly served. I can't speak to everywhere, but I thought that was pretty standard practice.

You mean the judge that never even studied law?

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#39

Post by hestipod » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

77pt77 wrote: post #34

> Judges don’t need a law degree in Kansas, or many other states, to preside over cases like these You can't make this up!

So many people think judges are some elevated ethical beings like we imagine as kids. They are mostly lawyers who are appointed or elected politically. The administrative law judge for my social assistance applications was hostile and overtly political and I knew I was screwed in the hearing. To make it worse the appeal was sent right back to HIM for review. Of course he rejected the appeal and upheld his decision. One of those things everyone who I tell responds like its not possible...but it was...and nobody cared. I lost all hope in the systems after that experience.

Re: When Medical Debt Collectors Decide Who Gets Arrested

#40

Post by tomnipotent » Sat, Oct 19, 2019, 5:55 PM UTC

nitwit005 wrote: post #9

> His friend bailed him out the next morning, but at the bond hearing, the judge granted the $500, minus court fees, to the hospital. I know it's not the subject of this, but this sounds like it's probably illegal? He's seizing money that was supposed to be returned to someone other than the defendant.

Doesn't matter who pays the bail. This is why bounty hunters exist, to recoup lost bail when "customers" don't show up to court.