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The Myth of 10,000 hours

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Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#31
Grit by Angela Duckworth (https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duck...) goes into deliberate practice quite a bit.

She talks about how deliberate practice is almost never enjoyable because you're trying to improve specific things, but it is how you attain mastery. The other side is "flow", when that mastery is display, and she mentions how it can look so effortless for top athletes, when it's almost definitely the result of hours and hours of deliberate practice.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#32
post #6
post #2

I haven't read the book, but what I heard about it second hand is that 10k hours is about mastery, not success. You can be a master without being successful and visa versa. But mastery sure improves your odds of success. Of course 10k hours doesn't guarantee mastery either. I've put in that much on the golf course and still suck at it.

>You can be a master without being successful and visa versa . There's an awful lot of skill-less, successful people out there, more than everyone would like, I'm sure.

I'm sure that's true, but there are also a lot of "soft" skills that many HN readers wouldn't necessarily recognize as such.

I'm reminded of Poul Anderson's short story The Man Who Counts.

Soft skills needn't be generally beneficial either, of course, any more than hard skills.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#33
post #31

Grit by Angela Duckworth ( https://www.amazon.com/Grit-Passion-Perseverance-Angela-Duck... ) goes into deliberate practice quite a bit. She talks about how deliberate practice is almost never enjoyable because you're trying to improve specific things, but it is how you attain mastery. The other side is "flow", when that mastery is display, and she mentions how it can look so effortless for top athletes, when it's alm…

On the same trail of thought https://www.amazon.ca/Talent-Code-Greatness-Born-Grown/dp/05... is a great read.

Shows many examples of how deliberate practice on the edge of your current ability is what equals mastery ( whilst also exploring the science behind it )

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#34
The observation is that mastery requires thousands of hours of deliberate practice.

I find it remarkable that people seem to think that this implies a claim in the opposite direction: that thousands of hours of (any) practice results in mastery.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#35
The way I always understood it is that 10000 hours of focused and deliberate practice and work gets you there.

I never interpreted it as: just do something for 10000 hours and you'll be a master at it.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#36
post #13

10k hours on anything will likely make you as good as you can be at something. Whether or not that is enough to become success depends on one's own ego and attachment to realizing if they're focusing on the better thing or not.

I'm sure many will argue, but I agree.

After 10,000 hours of doing something, I can't see anyone not having tried to improve themselves. I think it's basically impossible to do the same thing for that long without basic human nature taking effect and forcing that person to improve until they can't any more. At least, not organically. I'm sure you could put a gun to their head and force them to improve more, but that's not natural.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#37
post #34

The observation is that mastery requires thousands of hours of deliberate practice. I find it remarkable that people seem to think that this implies a claim in the opposite direction: that thousands of hours of (any) practice results in mastery.

I think it’s because we all[1] like to think there’s an easy shortcut to achieve a goal.

[1]Lots of people.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#38
I'm not sure why "10,000 hours to mastery" pisses off so many people. Sane people don't believe it's a hard number. They know it's a point of view that should help them focus on their goal, instead of some magic fact.

It tells newbies that they'll need to spend time and work hard to master the skill. It tells experienced people that they probably aren't the best they can be yet. And it tells masters to stop expecting newbies to be great and to let them have time to learn.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#39

For those who don’t know already, the “10,000 hours” to attain expert-level mastery in any field or endeavor is false. The study that Malcolm Gladwell cites by Anders Ericsson only applied to violin performance, which is a narrow field that has measurable and quantifiable performance levels and hundreds of years of teaching history. I repeat this comment almost every time because 10k is both discouraging for the begi…

Yet Gladwell goes on to apply the 10K hour observation to Bill Gates, the Beatles, etc. demonstrating that each of these did indeed have 10,000 hours of experience before they hit it big.

Re: The Myth of 10,000 hours

#40

I think the author of the article is missing the point of the book. And assuming everyone else is missing the point of 10,000 hours of intentional practice.

I agree with you. It might be helpful to share the point with those who might not immediately get it.
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