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Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

coinexchange.io

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Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#31

Post by bdcravens »

wesammikhail wrote: post #11
bdcravens wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you encounter your typical Bitcoiner, they'll do logical gymnastics and typically go the playbook, which is to deflect and talk about how much energy banks or treasuries use. However, the true answer is always greed.

Who gives a shit about energy usage if it is used for a cause that could potentially help humanity overcome adversity? Granted, energy usage is important but it is a question about trade-offs. If bitcoin helped solve cancer or some genetic diseases, I doubt anyone would say: "yea but it uses too much electricity!". The world is based on trade-offs, so why not have that electricity that the bitcoin network generate be…

We could also make an argument that Mark Zuckerberg could solve income inequality by tracking everyone and providing true transparency to a utopian world.

I'm pretty certain that if you evaluate mining and exchange activity, very little of it is impacting areas where it can effect real change (like Hong Kong or Venezuela).

For example, here's a report from the trenches on Venezuela:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/dht1qw/venezuela_u...

For the disaster that is that economy, only 0.004% of global BTC volume is taking place there (yes, that's the correct number of zeroes) Put another way, it represents about 0.08% of Venezuela's GDP.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#32

Post by arcticbull »

behringer wrote: post #29
arcticbull wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just unbelievably, mind-bogglingly inefficient, and no credible plans have been put forward to change that. Scaling up the current power consumption and waste generation to Visa-levels of transaction, a Bitcoin powered economy would consume 38X the entire worlds' generation capacity of electricity and yield 132 million metric tons of e-waste per year. All to replace what Visa does today. Just Visa. Not MC, Amex,…

That's because a method of solving useful work has not been discovered yet. Are you also incredulous that we don't have flying cars yet and how come Ford hasn't fixed that problem? If you're so concerned, perhaps you should start working on the problem and become the inventor of the next big p2p currency?

I'd be incredulous if someone had designed a flying car made by taping about ten thousand fans together, pointed them down precariously, and powered them with a little nuclear reactor. Also, it didn't make it more than 3 feet off the ground. Then, had many people talking about how the future of transit had arrived. It clearly hasn't and nobody can point to a single reason their contraption is actually better or does anything novel. But they're all pretttttty sure.

> If you're so concerned, perhaps you should start working on the problem and become the inventor of the next big p2p currency?

I'm not concerned because the problems identified had already been solved with money. You know, the thing already in your bank account.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#33

Post by arcticbull »

kajumix wrote: post #26
wesammikhail wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something that has boggled my mind since 2010 when I first looked at crypto. Why the hell would anyone waste CPU cycles computing some arbitrary hash value that is then ejected as "waste" rather than having the computational workload itself run scientifically important problem and the result of that computation is rewarded with a token? why the hell is everyone using all of this computational power for... not…

How do you imagine this could be done? Is there an inexhaustible repository of "scientifically important problems" that can be solved every 10 minutes by some computing entity, and whose difficulty is adjustable -- a function of available compute power in the network, and are verifiable by others without human judgement involved? > So why the hell are we not putting those to good use? Some would argue that securing t…

> Some would argue that securing transactions that transfer value without trust is a good use

Those folks haven't identified a good reason why being able to skirt sanctions, allow rogue states to accumulate value and to pay terrorists is worth "transferring value without trust." It's a pretty high bar, IMO.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#34

Post by arcticbull »

helpPeople wrote: post #10
j-pb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait for the Tulip... err Blockchain hype to die down. Using the energy of a mid size european country for what is now essentially a pyramid scheme is just shitty. (And I make that statement after having made a few thousand bucks by mining BTC at 5$ per coin.)

Anyone who calls it a tulip isn't taken seriously. I don't believe in the hype of altcoins, but I do see the problems Bitcoin solves.

I genuinely don't. It's not clear that Bitcoin does anything better than what's out there today. Not one thing. And it's less efficient.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#35

Post by arcticbull »

undefined3840 wrote: post #25
j-pb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't wait for the Tulip... err Blockchain hype to die down. Using the energy of a mid size european country for what is now essentially a pyramid scheme is just shitty. (And I make that statement after having made a few thousand bucks by mining BTC at 5$ per coin.)

Living in a country where you have no choice but to earn in a local currency with runaway inflation is objectively shittier.

Bitcoin doesn't solve that problem. 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction. Venezuelans would be mad to trade 2 weeks wages for a single BTC transaction. And that's when transaction fees are socialized by block rewards. If they actually had to pay the electricity consumed for their transactions it would be 10X higher.

Their problems are societal and need to be solved by societal means. Pretending magic beans in your computer will solve the Venezuelan objective nightmare is just ignoring objective reality. But don't just listen to me -- they all have access to Bitcoin. They know what it is. If it could solve their problems they would have started using it already. Bitcoin has no extrinsic barriers to adoption -- only intrinsic. People just don't want it, and why on earth would they?

The Bank of Canada study by real economists showed a BTC economy would have as much drain on the economy as a 48% inflation rate haha.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#36

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

arcticbull wrote: post #35
undefined3840 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Living in a country where you have no choice but to earn in a local currency with runaway inflation is objectively shittier.

Bitcoin doesn't solve that problem. 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction. Venezuelans would be mad to trade 2 weeks wages for a single BTC transaction. And that's when transaction fees are socialized by block rewards. If they actually had to pay the electricity consumed for their transactions it would be 10X higher. Their problems are societal and need to be solved by societal means. Pretending mag…

> Bitcoin ... 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction

That’s jaw dropping.

Where can I read more about this?

Found this:

https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Which appears to support your claim.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#37

Post by arcticbull »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #36
arcticbull wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin doesn't solve that problem. 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction. Venezuelans would be mad to trade 2 weeks wages for a single BTC transaction. And that's when transaction fees are socialized by block rewards. If they actually had to pay the electricity consumed for their transactions it would be 10X higher. Their problems are societal and need to be solved by societal means. Pretending mag…

> Bitcoin ... 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction That’s jaw dropping. Where can I read more about this? Found this: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption Which appears to support your claim.

Yeah, that's where I realized the magnitude of the number. They've got a bunch of extra reading articles at the bottom. The CBECI data from Cambridge University lines up with it (and I think is referenced from the Digiconomist writeup). Its methodology section explains how they got where they did [1].

[1] https://www.cbeci.org/methodology/

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#38

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

arcticbull wrote: post #37
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin ... 600kWh of electricity are consumed for each transaction That’s jaw dropping. Where can I read more about this? Found this: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption Which appears to support your claim.

Yeah, that's where I realized the magnitude of the number. They've got a bunch of extra reading articles at the bottom. The CBECI data from Cambridge University lines up with it (and I think is referenced from the Digiconomist writeup). Its methodology section explains how they got where they did [1]. [1] https://www.cbeci.org/methodology/

I think I need to have a lay down

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#39

Post by behringer »

arcticbull wrote: post #32
behringer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because a method of solving useful work has not been discovered yet. Are you also incredulous that we don't have flying cars yet and how come Ford hasn't fixed that problem? If you're so concerned, perhaps you should start working on the problem and become the inventor of the next big p2p currency?

I'd be incredulous if someone had designed a flying car made by taping about ten thousand fans together, pointed them down precariously, and powered them with a little nuclear reactor. Also, it didn't make it more than 3 feet off the ground. Then, had many people talking about how the future of transit had arrived. It clearly hasn't and nobody can point to a single reason their contraption is actually better or does…

Ah I see. Perhaps you should check out https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#what-is-bitcoin some of your points are addressed there.

Re: Coinexchange.io is Closing Down

#40

Post by arcticbull »

behringer wrote: post #39
arcticbull wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be incredulous if someone had designed a flying car made by taping about ten thousand fans together, pointed them down precariously, and powered them with a little nuclear reactor. Also, it didn't make it more than 3 feet off the ground. Then, had many people talking about how the future of transit had arrived. It clearly hasn't and nobody can point to a single reason their contraption is actually better or does…

Ah I see. Perhaps you should check out https://bitcoin.org/en/faq#what-is-bitcoin some of your points are addressed there.

I’ve read that before. The core issues are not addressed or are glossed over as of course that’s a pro bitcoin advocacy site. Bitcoin is fundamentally broken at the lowest levels.
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