I had been thinking about similar projects myself. I figure that experience with the z80, 68000, and the 6502 would give someone a platform for hacking for at least the next century. There are some dozens of 68000-like chips in a single car. I/O is as simple as LEDs and toggle switches for the bare necessities, such as bootstrapping other I/O options. Worked for the Altair 8800. From there one could implement morse-like momentary switch input. In these (possibly far-fetched) scenarios, going back to things like ticker tape and printers would make a decent amount of sense. Perhaps spools of wire could be used as "tape" for programs and data, as wire recorders existed before plastic tapes were available. I love seeing how home fabrication is developing, with people making simple silicon in their garage, but there is value to a basic tool chain that doesn't require as much sophistication and supply chains. I truly hope we don't live to see such a world, as the suffering would be immense. That said, I have no idea how complex supply chains can be expected to persist without fossil fuels.
Collapse OS
31–40 of 323 posts
Re: Collapse OS
#32Give me a good slide rule and a manual of practical mathematics, eh?
As for scavenged parts, you're going to need a warehouse of manuals and datasheets, eh?
Depending on the details of your post-apocalyptic scenario planning, simple automation driven by relays or clockwork logic will be more likely than e.g. scavenged microcontrollers.
I applaud the spirit of the project though: I don't want to live on Gilligan's Island making everything out of coconuts and vines.
Re: Collapse OS
#33I was pontificating about my 401k fund and what I should do if I find it no longer exists when I need to start using it. The older gentleman who was polite enough to listen to me said, "It's ok guy, if that 401k doesn't exist, then neither will you". And so I think I will not stockpile any computers for later. I do like the engineering spirit of this however.
I skimmed the announcement and it took a while to grok this comment of yours. Now I do, it all seems so much more awesome. An OS for a hobby project CPU, made with 9000 transistors, but for a future where society has collapsed.
The first link on CollapseOS’s announcement called “Winter is Coming” has it all:
Re: Collapse OS
#34I've been sort of half-assed working on a novel about a post-tech future (100+ years after apocalypse), where a handful of people retained some technology by virtue of having stored information about it in a manner that survived and a tradition of scavenging and trading and a sort of religion based on maintaining it in a working state. So, this is a fun read and thought experiment, even if an 8-bit computer is probab…
Computers could give you better chances of survival. In a shelter / bunker let's say you can have a control center where you can monitor sensors and manage databases. These tasks doesn't require a computer, but saves you massive time to do something else.
Re: Collapse OS
#35I was pontificating about my 401k fund and what I should do if I find it no longer exists when I need to start using it. The older gentleman who was polite enough to listen to me said, "It's ok guy, if that 401k doesn't exist, then neither will you". And so I think I will not stockpile any computers for later. I do like the engineering spirit of this however.
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Re: Collapse OS
#36I've been sort of half-assed working on a novel about a post-tech future (100+ years after apocalypse), where a handful of people retained some technology by virtue of having stored information about it in a manner that survived and a tradition of scavenging and trading and a sort of religion based on maintaining it in a working state. So, this is a fun read and thought experiment, even if an 8-bit computer is probab…
IMHO you could be using the same chips for a surprisingly long time - you're likely to need some electronics maintained e.g. replacing capacitors, but if you really need to get some computing power for a 2100 post-apocalyptic scenario where there's just a few million people, then scavenging working chips from random gadgets has a lot of potential. E.g. a hard drive controller or a kids toy may be running on something that was good enough for a CPU twenty years ago.
Re: Collapse OS
#37So, let me see if I understand this correctly: this is supposed to run on z80-based computers after an armageddon comes and all the other "modern" computers are out of business, so people start building them by scavenging parts. Ok. So, first of all, how are you supposed to download this thing onto your homebrew computer, given that internet will most likely be down? "But if the collapse magnitude is right, then this…
There are a very large number of Z80s around today and in-use. They are dirt-cheap and just right for many embedded applications. More importantly, they're simple enough to grok and to wire by hand; so yeah, were I stripping components for a make-shift computer in a post-apocalyptic world, I might just go for a Z80.
Re: Collapse OS
#38Why Z80? Is it like the 2nd most common processor type or something? Where would one find a Z80 when scavenging?
It's extremely common, even today, though probably not the processor I would pick (I think 68000 family, perhaps?), but it's probably a reasonable choice. You're going to be able to find it embedded in literally millions of devices and it's simple enough for one person to build a computer around it.
I suspect the argument against modern Intel chips is just their complexity. They need an incredibly complicated and somewhat fragile support infrastructure...you can't build a modern PC motherboard in your garage and you don't expect modern PCs to last decades. They're very common, though, and I suspect there will be plenty of PCs to scavenge, at least through our lifetimes. But, the next generation will probably have trouble keeping them going...I've got a 40 year old C64 still running with nearly all original parts, but I am nearly 100% certain my modern laptop will not last even a decade without repairs using parts that can't be manufactured without modern infrastructure.
Re: Collapse OS
#39Anyone wondering why the Z80 chip, just read the FAQ:
https://collapseos.org/why.html
"The z80 has 9000 transistors. 9000! Compared to the millions we have in any modern CPU, that's nothing!"
Re: Collapse OS
#40I was pontificating about my 401k fund and what I should do if I find it no longer exists when I need to start using it. The older gentleman who was polite enough to listen to me said, "It's ok guy, if that 401k doesn't exist, then neither will you". And so I think I will not stockpile any computers for later. I do like the engineering spirit of this however.
"It's ok guy, if that 401k doesn't exist, then neither will you". There are a number of ways that can not be true without a large scale societal collapse. Fraud involving pension funds has happened many times in the past (Bernie Madoff, Robert Maxwell being two high profile examples). The last financial crisis brought a bit more attention to the topic of counterparty risk - the idea that your "safe" investment is onl…
401(k) plans have individual named customer accounts and strict auditing standards. A Bernie Madoff type scam isn't really possible. Even if Vanguard or Fidelity goes bankrupt the customer accounts will still exist. There's no counterparty risk (except for cash actively being transferred in or out).