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Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

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Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#31

Post by nitwit005 »

JohnFen wrote: post #12
GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Essentially everyone has stolen at some point in their lives, and almost everyone has gone into private property they theoretically shouldn't have gone into.

My door has a lock, but must adults could get in by kicking it a few times with determination. That's true of most locks in existence. They're there to stop people who don't actually want to cause any real damage.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#32

Post by war1025 »

sliken wrote: post #22
GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

My pet peeve is smart dead bolts. Presumably if you have a dead bolt you are worried enough about security to pay for a lock that's stronger and harder to subvert than a normal door knob lock. After all using 2 keys/locks is a hassle every time you open the door. Presumably because you don't want anyone with a shim/credit card to just pop your latch. Most would expect a dead bolt to survive a 5 second attack from a 1…

I (and I assumed everyone with a dead bolt) only ever lock the dead bolt.

What's the point of locking the door handle if there is a dead bolt?

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#33

Post by peterwwillis »

GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

Of the places I've lived, the back window has been kicked in, the rooftop door has been unlocked, windows pried, and previous roommates broke into others' rooms to steal stuff.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#34

Post by RHSeeger »

fuzz4lyfe wrote: post #9
GreenJelloShot wrote: post #8

Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. If someone is determined and willing, there really is nothing you can do to stop them from breaking into your house.

>Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? I mean you can buy the world's sturdiest, more secure lock and attach it to the world's strongest door, someone with a hammer can easily break a window. In my home, the locks and windows (laminated glass[0]) are hard enough to break that when you attempt to do so I have time to ready my firearm. Something like this would potentially allow someone to sneak…

Out of curiosity, do you have a normal door lock on your door; one that uses the kind of key you can get a copy made of at home depot? If so, pretty much anyone can open it with a bump key and a couple seconds.

You can see it in action here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0CIlwSxsvU). His first try takes a bit longer than it should because he's turning too hard (simple mistake). Every attempt after that takes just a couple seconds.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#35

Post by WalterBright »

ineedasername wrote: post #28
WalterBright wrote: post #24

Eh, I'd design an electronic lock that is operated with a phone app. There'd be nothing visible of it on the surface of the door. There'd be no way to tell what the make/model of the lock was. There'd a flange the full length of the door so you couldn't even tell where the bolt was.

What if your phone ran out of power though?

You could have a magnetic switch somewhere that you could tap SOS on with a magnet or something. Or just knock on the door with a certain pattern. Or speak "Open the pod bay doors, Hal" into a pinhole mike. I'm sure you could think of many methods.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#36

Post by Chirael »

nullc wrote: post #23

Security is usually a lemon market. The buyer can't really tell if its secure or not, depressing what people are willing to pay, which makes it bad business to invest in making a secure product. It's rather difficult to find electronic locks, even for safes, that aren't obviously less secure than traditional options. Which is pretty sad considering that an electronic lock could be substantially more secure if it was…

With the Internet and YouTube I don’t think it’s as much of a lemon market as it once was. The information is out there, pretty accessible actually. For example it’s not hard to find that Master and Kwikset might not be the highest security compared to other options. The problem isn’t that the information is hard to find, it’s just that most people aren’t willing to spend more for higher security (could be a few hundred dollars more once you multiply it by a few doors) and it’s easy to convince yourself cheap locks are “good enough” - after all, someone could break a window, kick in the door, etc.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#37

Post by beatgammit »

swiley wrote: post #15
JohnFen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Maybe if you live in Baltimore or Detroit but in most of the US people really need a good reason to do that kind of thing. In college I had a friend who didn't even bother locking his door and always left his keys in his car and it was never a problem.

I live in a very low crime area, yet even in my sleepy neighborhood (semi rural), we had a break-in a couple years before buying our house. It turned out to be a couple of teenagers that wanted some quick cash (probably for drugs). That was the only break-in for years, and there hasn't been one for the several years I've lived in my house, so you never know when someone will try to steal something.

That being said, a lock has to be just good enough to deter theft. In my area, that's means a simple door lock for houses and a U-lock for bicycles. In other areas, you need far more security. But to goal isn't to keep out a determined attacker, but to make it more worthwhile for the thief to move on to the next house/car/bike than to try to get past your lock.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#38

Post by spinach »

nitwit005 wrote: post #31
JohnFen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Essentially everyone has stolen at some point in their lives, and almost everyone has gone into private property they theoretically shouldn't have gone into. My door has a lock, but must adults could get in by kicking it a few times with determination. That's true of most locks in existence. They're there to stop people who don't actually want to cause any real damage.

> Essentially everyone has stolen at some point in their lives

Isn't this a fairly wild claim? I've never stolen anything and can't imagine doing so. That's a pretty dismal view of the human race isn't it.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#39

Post by Chirael »

neogodless wrote: post #11
calculuscrayon wrote: post #5

Why even put the lock on the outside? All smart locks I've encountered just communicate wirelessly with a smart lock inside. Physical keys are used as a backup.

I like keypads. On a rental you can change them when tenants change. At home you can go out with keys or phone. Though it stands to reason you could put a keypad outside and run a wire inside, or use wireless though personally I'm glad my keypad lock isn't smart or wireless.

Keypads are good, especially for higher end rentals. Another lower tech (and probably more secure TBH) option is small format interchangeable core (SFIC) locks where the core can easily and cheaply be swapped out between tenants. Landlordlocks.com built a business selling this concept to landlords. I’m only jealous I didn’t think of it first :)

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#40

Post by ineedasername »

mikeryan wrote: post #18
jpalomaki wrote: post #4

Slightly related to this, the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube has number of videos where he tries a Ramset gun [1] against different padlocks. For example: https://youtu.be/Wimo09WV-rY This was interesting as it was an attack that certainly would not have crossed my mind. Would be interesting to see how other types of locks would do against this kind of tool. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-MasterShot-0-22-Cali…

Interesting - I do wonder how well that attack would work in a normal use setting where it could become much harder to brace the lock against something.

He's got a couple of videos using it in different ways and it doesn't look like it would be too difficult to brace a lock in some way to use it, like using the tension in the chain or hasp it hangs from. But you're right, in some circumstances it probably would work. Seems dangerous though, both in debris flying off and even more so since it looks like a gun.
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