Why We Don't Skip Photoshop • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#31

Post by webwright » Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 5:18 AM UTC

sabat wrote: post #28

jraines wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you. They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to be bold and occasionally controversial.

Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in the long run, though.

I don't want to say that nice guys finish last, but certainly a big slice of the people at the "top" of the tech world aren't taking the middle ground. Pissing people off seems to correlate with success.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#32

Post by jamesjyu » Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 8:55 AM UTC

webwright wrote: post #9

On the app side, I'm not sure if HTML/CSS always wins. Between Yahoo's stencils (and some of my own), I can get some clear ideas in play that look like a web page in Photoshop in an hour or two, assuming I don't get tempted by pixel-perfection. This is slower than sketching, but I think just about always causes the audience to consider the prototype more thoroughly, uncovering problems and potential that a sketch usu…

Yes, I totally agree with this. I typically use Illustrator instead of Photoshop, just because I think it's easier to mock things up quickly and make edits quickly.

I will usually get to a stable design, and then bring the whole team in and put the design up on the projector. We then discuss, critique, and dissect the design. The whole time, I can rapidly make new versions and forks of the design based on suggestions. This is just something that you can't do in HTML/CSS, at least not in realtime.

There's just something about HTML/CSS that constrains you to think in a box. With Illustrator or some other design tool, it's easier to get your ideas out. For me, getting to a pixel perfect design after planning in Illustrator is trivial.

The hard part is getting the actual design down.

I think this whole thread has too many hackers that are either scared of using design tools like Photoshop, against them because they are expensive or bloated, or deem them unnecessary because HTML/CSS is "good enough". I guarantee you that I'm able to iterate on designs faster and more efficiently using design tools rather than hand coding.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#33

Post by run4yourlives » Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 4:07 PM UTC

sabat wrote: post #28

jraines wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it almost certainly wouldn't, unless you mean specifically for you. They're constantly in the press, they generate conversations on sites like this, and they've spawned a legion of (number)(noun) imitators. It's one of the basic principles of copywriting and social media marketing that it pays to be bold and occasionally controversial.

Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in the long run, though.

Um, they're proving otherwise. They've pissed off a whole boatload of people, and their customer based is still growing.

It's that old, "it nobody hates you, you aren't doing anything worthwhile".

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#34

Post by TrevorJ » Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 5:39 PM UTC

Everybody has a a different creative process, and the only important metric to judge it by is: does it work for you, and does it work in the context of your team members?

the easiest way to stumble into a wrong approach is to blindly adopt somebody else's approach without tailoring it to the particulars of how YOU work and think.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#35

Post by aristus » Fri, Jun 06, 2008, 7:17 PM UTC

bprater wrote: post #17

mojuba wrote: post #2

I'm going to skip Photoshop for an entirely different reason. All Adobe products gradually became classical bloatware over the past years. One or two minor features, or otherwise just a couple of crappy-buzzword-features and you get a binary twice as bigger as the previous one. When you realize they are doing that just because they need to improve sales, you feel betrayed. So honestly, today I feel betrayed by Adobe…

I've used every version of Photoshop since 2.5 (thats back in the day before layers existed!), and I've consistently been more happy with each version that comes out. Often, it's very simple subtle things that improve my workflow, like layer folders or improved styles or non-destructive layers.

I've been using it since the 2.5 days as well, when it came on two floppies and a stone tablet. I agree, mostly, but 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 Win were crap.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#36

Post by sabat » Sun, Jun 08, 2008, 4:58 AM UTC

run4yourlives wrote: post #33

sabat wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pissing people off garners attention, sure. I'm not sure it's good business in the long run, though.

Um, they're proving otherwise. They've pissed off a whole boatload of people, and their customer based is still growing. It's that old, "it nobody hates you, you aren't doing anything worthwhile".

Or, maybe their bullshit hasn't caught up with them yet.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#37

Post by sabat » Sun, Jun 08, 2008, 4:59 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #21

sabat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you have a valid point. The reason I partially disagree with it is that attitude plays a part here. 37signals comes off as though they think they need to tell people how to live; they love being up in your grill. The contents of their posts are often reasoned well enough, but their attitude says "you suck; let us tell you how to suck less."

It's your choice to read their blog. The fact that you take their arguments seriously means that they're probably on to something.

I don't take their arguments seriously. I am merely annoyed by their posturing.

Re: Why We Don't Skip Photoshop

#38

Post by sabat » Sun, Jun 08, 2008, 5:02 AM UTC

bprater wrote: post #16

sabat wrote: post #6

Why I voted this up: because the author suggests that there is not just one correct way to do something. Which is not what 37signals usually suggests.

Compelling writing often forces one to take a strong position.

I'm going to reply again just to say: bullshit. Compelling writing doesn't need anything to back it up. You either have a point or you don't. Acting like an asshole just means you don't have much of anything to say.