Richard M. Stallman resigns • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#31

Post by bemeurer » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

JaimeThompson wrote: post #20

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

It is rather hard to support his statement of his "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."

For what it's worth he retracted that statement. https://www.stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_Septe...

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#32

Post by M2Ys4U » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:42 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

>Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry.

Defending the rape of trafficked children is not a "hallmark of scientific inquiry".

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#33

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

[deleted]

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#34

Post by favorited » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:43 AM UTC

mirceal wrote: post #15

djrobstep wrote: post #6

This is a good step. Stallman has been a liability as a figurehead for a long time, and software freedom deserves better standard-bearers. I saw Stallman once at a public lecture. He was incredibly rude, but is seemingly oblivious to how obnoxious he is being (he struck me as somebody heavily on the spectrum). I hate to think how many people have written off the cause of software freedom as a joke because of his cond…

you know, i saw Stallman at a conference once and the nice people at FSF were also there. FSF as a whole is doing important work and liked the talks they gave and how they were talking about some of the issues ivolved. Stallman on the other side came across as a nutjob. And it wasn’t because of his principles (which if you think about it are great and something to actually aspire to - at least in connection to softwa…

I believe it. I mean, he's the same guy who picked something off his foot and ate it[0]. He clearly doesn't understand or care about behaving in a socially acceptable way.

[0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67KtxG_0DVo#t=1m58s

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#35

Post by dx87 » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #16

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

Before jumping to criticize Stallman, be aware: there is a big difference between what today's round of headlines claim Stallman wrote, and what he actually wrote. Given the relatively clear-cut nature of the lies the press has told about him, I think he ought to be suing for libel.

What is the counter argument for what Stallman wrote? I've seen that the "press is going too hard on him", but, honestly, I think they were justified. What is the "big difference" to you? If someone, personally, said to me that that someone be absolved of a crime, because the other, coerced, party was "willing" at that moment, I'd seriously question their morals.

Even if the person who commited the crime had no knowledge that the other party was coerced? Why are they at fault because they were lied to and tricked into commiting a crime?

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#36

Post by jimrandomh » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

nemothekid wrote: post #16

jimrandomh wrote: post #8

Before jumping to criticize Stallman, be aware: there is a big difference between what today's round of headlines claim Stallman wrote, and what he actually wrote. Given the relatively clear-cut nature of the lies the press has told about him, I think he ought to be suing for libel.

What is the counter argument for what Stallman wrote? I've seen that the "press is going too hard on him", but, honestly, I think they were justified. What is the "big difference" to you? If someone, personally, said to me that that someone be absolved of a crime, because the other, coerced, party was "willing" at that moment, I'd seriously question their morals.

Stallman wrote: "We can imagine many scenarios, but the most plausible scenario is that she presented herself to him as entirely willing. Assuming she was being coerced by Epstein, he would have had every reason to tell her to conceal that from most of his associates."

Here's the Vice headline (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/9ke3ke/famed-computer-sci...): Famed Computer Scientist Richard Stallman Described Epstein Victims As 'Entirely Willing' (HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20965319 )

New York Post (https://nypost.com/2019/09/14/mit-scientist-says-epstein-vic...): "MIT scientist says Epstein victim Virginia Giuffre was ‘entirely willing’: report"

Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/us/mit-professor-jeffrey-epstein-ass...): "MIT scientist defended Jeffrey Epstein associate in leaked emails, claimed victims were ‘entirely willing’"

These headlines do not match what Stallman wrote. They wrote awful words, and put them in his mouth, in order to support a narrative in which he said something which he didn't. That's not okay.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#37

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

coconut_crab wrote: post #12

The Internet doesn't forget, so everyone can be branded mysogynist/mysandry/pedophile/etc.. just by making mistakes or having taken quotes out of context. People have limited attention and the media profits on showing the ugliness of others. This is not how it should be but I don't know how to fix that...

[deleted]

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#38

Post by lone_haxx0r » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

JaimeThompson wrote: post #20

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

It is rather hard to support his statement of his "I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing."

No one is asking you to support his statement. No one agrees with someone else on every issue. I don't agree with him either.

The important thing is to agree on the issue at hand: software.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#39

Post by twirlock » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

Throw this guy under a bus and force him to resign, but accidentally accepting donations from a child trafficker and then accidentally writing him a thank you letter is just normal mistakes for staff at prestigious technology schools. Bravo academia. So sophisticated. Oh and good on the neoliberal media establishment for memory-holing the sex trafficking ring established by billionaires, but keeping the pressure up on some guy who just commented. Absolute hypocrisy. The people running things are abject trash.

Re: Richard M. Stallman resigns

#40

Post by mikeash » Tue, Sep 17, 2019, 2:46 AM UTC

aazaa wrote: post #14

I've seen some online cheering Stallman's resignation from MIT. I suspect they'll also be cheering about this resignation as well. But this is nothing to cheer about. Regardless of what low regard the man might be held as a person, he's being persecuted for having expressing ideas, demanding proof of claims, advocating for objective standards, and asking questions. These are all hallmarks of scientific inquiry. It se…

He’s being forced to resign from an advocacy organization for being a shithead who defends child rape. It sets the precedent that you can’t defend reprehensible acts and still be considered a community leader. We are all better off for it.