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The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

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31–40 of 79 posts

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#31
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last point is key. There are so many options that provide relief for those who need it most that don’t bail out New York Times journalists who paid $150,000 for a Columbia English degree or big firm lawyers who paid $250,000 for a Columbia law degree. And given how much of the debt is subject to income-based repayment, there is also a set of options for bringing relief to those who don’t qualify to cap their loan…

There is also a free and fair option, just let people go bancrupt on their student loans. We've already seen politicians bailing out loans to help their reach friends, but saying it's all for the people. Don't let history repeat itself

student loans are typically not dischargeable in bankruptcy

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#32
post #11

Honest question, why are Universities becoming so expensive? Is because these credits are available? Was estudying a degree cheaper before the credits?

At public schools, state funding cuts are part of it. States have been cutting funding for schools (directly or in proportion to expenses/inflation) for decades. At the same time many more students are going to college than they used to. These things combined increase funding share that needs to be made up by tuition significantly.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#33

I think a lot of the student debt crisis is self-inflicted. No one is forcing you to attend a 4 year straight from high-school, go to a community college and then transfer to a state school/4 year. (I spent 3 years at a CC, but I graduated from a UC and paid off my student loans within a year) Yes, college is expensive, but there is an existing alternative that everyone seems to forget about and it boggles my mind.

A lot of kids are essentially forced. Maybe not with a gun, but there is strong societal and familial pressure to get into the best school that they can, and that’s engrained into them from a pretty early age. They are taught that their value as a human being is heavily dependent on academic success.

Then, the people who raised them, and who they trust the most, tell them to sign on whatever dotted line is in front of them. The finances take care of themselves later! The administrators act as though it’s business as usual. The student is their proxy to government guaranteed money.

Since student loans can’t be discharged, it’s not even that banks relax their standards. It’s much worse than that. They’re now financially incentivized to give out as much debt as they possibly can. The more they lend, the more they are guaranteed to profit.

Money is free, so schools raise their prices and hire more staff.

I don’t really blame the students at all. Most people are surprisingly financially illiterate, and 17 year olds are especially naive. Their brains are not fully formed. We don’t let them buy cigarettes or look at naked people, because we don’t trust them. Yet we throw them in this game with seasoned adult professionals who work with complex financial instruments for a living, and we somehow expect them to come out alive.

Sure, many individuals will navigate this just fine, but, predictably, those ones are lost in the noise when you measure populations.

The only thing that boggles my mind is the fact that we haven’t corrected it yet, and most of the current proposals sound like they will actually make the problem worse. Bernie wants to make tuition free! That sounds like a pre-emptive bailout on a blank check.

If you want to understand why people seem to be inexplicably bad with money, it’s important to realize that their brain doesn’t work like yours does. So any assumptions based on what you think is logical are worthless in furthering your understanding.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a free and fair option, just let people go bancrupt on their student loans. We've already seen politicians bailing out loans to help their reach friends, but saying it's all for the people. Don't let history repeat itself

student loans are typically not dischargeable in bankruptcy

That’s based on laws that can change at any time. IMO, people should be able to discharge them in bankruptcy around 15 to 20 years after graduation.

This is in line with the “total and permanent disability” escape method which has minimal impact on the larger student loan market. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#35
post #11

Honest question, why are Universities becoming so expensive? Is because these credits are available? Was estudying a degree cheaper before the credits?

An interesting hypothesis is that this is caused by everything else becoming much cheaper (because e.g. automatization), while teaching remains similarly hard as it was 100 years ago.

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/06/10/book-review-the-prices...

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#36
post #20
post #3

The statistics in this article aren't especially useful, and could easily have been made more so by breaking debt down by attainment. Students that leave postsecondary without a 4-year bachelor's degree on average apparently owe less than $10k; with a bachelor's, less than $25k; with a graduate degree, $45k. Roughly 1/3 of all borrowers drop out, implying (I think?) that the majority of debt is held by people who com…

The last point is key. There are so many options that provide relief for those who need it most that don’t bail out New York Times journalists who paid $150,000 for a Columbia English degree or big firm lawyers who paid $250,000 for a Columbia law degree. And given how much of the debt is subject to income-based repayment, there is also a set of options for bringing relief to those who don’t qualify to cap their loan…

The trap with income based repayment is that after 20 or 25 years worth of payments less than the accruing interest the original principal plus all the capitalized interest is forgiven, but that forgiven debt is taxable income to the borrower. So the borrower has replaced a debt to the department of education to one to the IRS.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

student loans are typically not dischargeable in bankruptcy

That’s based on laws that can change at any time. IMO, people should be able to discharge them in bankruptcy around 15 to 20 years after graduation. This is in line with the “total and permanent disability” escape method which has minimal impact on the larger student loan market. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...

There isn't much of a student loan market. The overwhelming majority of student loans are made by the government with no underwriting and the rates set arbitrarily.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#38
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last point is key. There are so many options that provide relief for those who need it most that don’t bail out New York Times journalists who paid $150,000 for a Columbia English degree or big firm lawyers who paid $250,000 for a Columbia law degree. And given how much of the debt is subject to income-based repayment, there is also a set of options for bringing relief to those who don’t qualify to cap their loan…

There is also a free and fair option, just let people go bancrupt on their student loans. We've already seen politicians bailing out loans to help their reach friends, but saying it's all for the people. Don't let history repeat itself

The problem with allowing people to BK their student loans is that it creates a perverse incentive. If you BK over a car, it gets repossessed. But nobody can take your education back. A BK at 22-23 years of age is not a strong deterrent; you'll still be able to buy a house in your early 30s, which is when a lot of people plan to do that anyways.

You can make loans dischargeable, but doing so will drastically change who loans are made available to in the first place.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#39
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s based on laws that can change at any time. IMO, people should be able to discharge them in bankruptcy around 15 to 20 years after graduation. This is in line with the “total and permanent disability” escape method which has minimal impact on the larger student loan market. https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/repay-loans/forgiveness-cancell...

There isn't much of a student loan market. The overwhelming majority of student loans are made by the government with no underwriting and the rates set arbitrarily.

The market is on the other end. Loans are constantly resold after being issued, which is why people regularly get new student loan processors.

Re: The Long Road to the Student Debt Crisis

#40

I think a lot of the student debt crisis is self-inflicted. No one is forcing you to attend a 4 year straight from high-school, go to a community college and then transfer to a state school/4 year. (I spent 3 years at a CC, but I graduated from a UC and paid off my student loans within a year) Yes, college is expensive, but there is an existing alternative that everyone seems to forget about and it boggles my mind.

No one is forced to take out any kind of debt; the issue is that typical debt is secured by an asset or dischargeable in bankruptcy. If you make severe mistakes with credit cards, you'll declare bankruptcy and the credit card companies will suffer. This imposes some market discipline on lenders. Banks are (ideally) not eager to make mortgages to people who are likely to become insolvent. Yes, I know about the Great R…

Yes this is the main problem. People like the parent commentator look down on young students for being irresponsible when the other side of the deal is even more irresponsible. Lenders are incentivized to loan out as much as possible since they know they will get paid back.
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