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DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

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Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#31

Post by duxup »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Personally I think DevOps is like religion. It means whatever someone wants it to mean. Some companies think DevOps means having an automated pipeline for building, testing, and shipping code. Other companies think it means micro-services. Others think it means making developers do DBA / SysAdmin work. All of these things are fine for companies to do. How you run your org is on you. But I wish companies would go deep…

DevOps is the channel in slack I check when my code didn't update. That the directs me to somewhere else where I just sort of randomly click things until it works or gets worse.

But yeah I'm with you on the wild definitions, it can be anything from some overnight IT grunt, to something far more respected and involved depending on how the company did things.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#32

Post by LoSboccacc »

it wasn't his own thing and there wasn't the scale yet to have it was a proper position, but when you were moving connection strings in a config file and linking it in etc you were doing devops. when you were building a shell script to fetch pinned dependencies so that the environment was repeatable, you were doing devops. weekend you were automating the package build/install and putting these files in CVS, you were doing devops.

heck we had versioned openpkg scripts in 200something to quickly rotate servers during upgrades, that wasn't called with fancy names and wasn't a standalone role but the seed was there.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#34

Post by arendtio »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #15

Personally I think DevOps is like religion. It means whatever someone wants it to mean. Some companies think DevOps means having an automated pipeline for building, testing, and shipping code. Other companies think it means micro-services. Others think it means making developers do DBA / SysAdmin work. All of these things are fine for companies to do. How you run your org is on you. But I wish companies would go deep…

> But I wish companies would go deeper than "DevOps" when putting up job posting requirements.

I am not sure this problem is limited to DevOps. Once I applied for a job thinking I understood the job description. During the interview, I had to find out that they put only half the job in the description (the good parts).

Afterward, I took a look on the job description again asking myself if I misinterpreted the description but came to the conclusion that they just didn't want to write about the downsides of the job (not even in management speak like 'You love a challenge?').

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#35

Post by slowhand09 »

IMHO DevOps has been around for many years. Is has just evolved as tooling became better and eventually tooling to connect tooling became better. It became META. When I started doing database work we developed and implemented. We learned to produce reports on what we'd implemented by querying system tables. We learned to use those reports to produce scripts that could recreate the database on the same or a different platform.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#36

Post by eternalban »

johngalt wrote: post #30

DevOps is the intersection of three things. 1. Developers learning that running code is not the same thing as reliable code. Certain things must be put in at design time to allow for operations. 2. Operations people supporting development by formalizing/streamlining the deployment process to have changes occur faster, safer, and more often. 3. Aligning goals and attitudes in such a way that prevents conflict between…

DevOps is blue collar work. Software Engineering used to be white collar work.

Think boiler room vs drafting room.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#38

Post by commandlinefan »

irrational wrote: post #18

This article was frustrating to me. When it started out in the mid-90s (which is when I started my career also), I thought our experiences would be more aligned. However, I've never worked with an operations team. In all the places I've worked I've been expected to do everything from setting up servers (originally physical servers, later cloud servers), hardening them, installing software, optimizing the software, in…

> make my job of doing all of the above easier.

That’s the dream… the reality in my experience is that you have to describe, in detail, the exact steps that you would perform if you were doing it yourself so that somebody else can perform them, verbatim. But you have to describe those steps, exactly, without any access to the target platform where they’ll be performed.

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#39

Post by [deleted] »

trollied wrote: post #28

All that’s really happened is that developers have learned or taken on the responsibility to build and deploy to production, and also be knowledgeable and responsible for the development stack, hence “full stack developer”. Unfortunately, it’s incredibly dangerous if everyone involved doesn’t know what they’re doing. Then kubernites and docker turn up. To make things easy? No. They’re making the infrastructure more d…

[deleted]

Re: DevOps didn’t exist when I started as a developer

#40

Post by aodin »

The change in job description from just "operations" to "developer operations" over the past decade is best captured by the growing number of systems that must be managed per person, often larger by a factor of 10 times or more (e.g. going from 10 systems per person to 100+).

I appreciate the self-reflective views on this "new" job role, but they often seem to miss the rather basic market forces at work. More systems, more automation, new skills and demands.

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