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Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

politico.com

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Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#31

Post by Miner49er »

dahart wrote: post #17

> The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cell phones into giving them their locations and identity information. I realize that roaming is a thing, and I don’t know how cellular protocols work, but I am curious why at this point phones don’t connect to towers anonymously, authenticate towers by default, encrypt identity, etc..? Surely the phone could be…

Even if it is possible, why would it ever be implemented?

The vast majority of users don't care about this. And even if they did, it's not like there's any real competition in cellular carriers, so there still wouldn't be incentive for carriers to implement this.

On the flip side, there is lots of demand from law enforcement for them _not_ to. Law enforcement uses stingrays and would certainly pressure carriers to not implement something that stops them from continuing.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#32

Post by mamon »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

You misunderstand the power dynamics in this alliance: Israel is the boss, US is the muscle. So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#33

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

dahart wrote: post #17

> The miniature surveillance devices, colloquially known as “StingRays,” mimic regular cell towers to fool cell phones into giving them their locations and identity information. I realize that roaming is a thing, and I don’t know how cellular protocols work, but I am curious why at this point phones don’t connect to towers anonymously, authenticate towers by default, encrypt identity, etc..? Surely the phone could be…

> why phones don’t connect to towers anonymously

Since the GSM era, law enforcement all over the world has appreciated being able to tie cell phone signals to individual devices. IMEI etc is part of the standard for a reason.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#34

Post by sundbry »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

https://www.israellobby.org/azcdoj/

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#35

Post by bhouston »

kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Nothing about this article seems untrustworthy.

Politico is a highly trustworthy paper that had real reporters who talk to real people all over the US government and it references real events and people and papers all throughout this article.

Your comment seems out of place.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#36

Post by creaghpatr »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #26
kryogen1c wrote: post #8

> The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind > But unlike most other occasions I don't know if im spoiled by Wikipedia, or jaded from age, or wisened by age, or rightfully lost trust in the media, or wrongfully lost trust in the media, but i find myself entirely unwilling to accept to accept claims like this. Citation. Needed. In order to believe this article, i need to…

Both quotes cite their sources — “former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter” — in the parts of the sentence you cut off: > The U.S. government concluded within the last two years that Israel was most likely behind the placement of cell-phone surveillance devices that were found near the White House and other sensitive locations around Washington, D.C., according to three former senior U.S. officials w…

>according to three former senior U.S. officials with knowledge of the matter.

It would matter if there were any substance to the claims, it might make sense. But instead, the article goes a step further as you quote here:

>> The former senior intelligence official criticized how the administration handled the matter, remarking on the striking difference from past administrations, which likely would have at a very minimum issued a démarche, or formal diplomatic reprimand, to the foreign government condemning its actions.

This take, of course, hinges on the premise being correct, which there is no substance to prove it is. This is classic oppo laundering.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#37

Post by ceejayoz »

SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

The US gains access to effective intelligence networks in the Arab world and Iran, a useful testbed for anti-rocket and anti-mortar technology, forward military basing, and a variety of other benefits.

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#38

Post by souterrain »

gnu8 wrote: post #16

I still don’t understand how the Stingray is a saleable product. There’s no way such a device could obtain FCC certification, or for a prospective user to obtain a license to operate one. So notwithstanding the fact that the government wants these things, Harris shouldn’t be making or selling these things, and rightfully belongs in jail.

Harris can manufacture this under the guise it’s never intended for use within the U.S. They can claim it is for counter-insurgency surveillance in certain central Asian countries.

Alternatively, they could seek FCC OET authorization for the product as test equipment, but I doubt it, and my quick searches have yielded nothing.

I suspect this is why Harris, FBI and other LEAs conceal their use [1].

1. https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-ci-stingray-mu...

Re: Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House

#40

Post by hanniabu »

mamon wrote: post #32
SuoDuanDao wrote: post #28

What does the US get out of the special relationship with Israel? Anti-Israel sources mostly talk about the strong Jewish lobbies, while pro-Israel sources mostly cite being the only democracy in the region. Both seem misleading at best. What's the US's argument from self-interest for tolerating this kind of thing?

You misunderstand the power dynamics in this alliance: Israel is the boss, US is the muscle. So even if US is gaining nothing from it the alliance will continue as long as Israel needs it. If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers, etc. until you submit.

> If you try to end it, you'll be called antisemites, Holocaust deniers

You're downvoted, but this has absolutely been my observation as well

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