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How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

theguardian.com

31–40 of 99 posts

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#31
post #9

Really makes you wonder what stuff they're doing now that will be declassified in a few decades

MKUltra was the US program that expounded on the research done by the Germans, Japanese, and Soviets (sometimes only programs we thought they were working on and started counter-programs which then spurred the creation of counter-counter-programs...)

My take is that by about the late 80's, early 90's, they had finished most of the research and transitioned into implementation at mass scale, both domestically and internationally. Extrapolate from that what you may.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#32
> “Some of our people were out of control in those days,” Colby said. “They went too far. There were problems of supervision and administration.”

That was in 1975 talking about the events in the 1950s. There is this idea that, well CIA might have gone a bit too far, but it was a long time ago. Hiring Nazi scientists, feeding people drugs, murdering, overthrowing governments, conducting torture sessions. That was in those old dark and confused times. Today they just sit at their desks and type reports like nice little bored bureaucrats.

What if they are just as evil and brutal today and we just don't know about it. I have a hard time believing that as an organization, they sort found their moral one day and decided they need to start behaving.

> “Well, he’s gone,” the caller had said. Abramson replied: “Well, that’s too bad.”

Abramson is a doctor treating Olson. Surely, after being told his patient is gone, he would be horrified and demand to know all about the tragedy. But the conversation indicates they were both expecting it to happen. Well who is Dr Harold Abramson, were there any other suspicious deaths associated with his patients. What the heck was Abramson doing that made Olson reconsider seeing his family again and instead opted to head back to New York to this doctor instead. How many Dr. Abramsons are there around today I wonder...

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#33
post #22

Interesting how the article turns a story of mass torture and killings akin to nazy mad-science into a story about one individual murder. Makes one wonder why would a state research mind control from drugs, when mind control from history books and newspapers is already so efficient.

Maybe mind control from history books or whatever is not as efficient as you're thinking it is?

Just speculating that if I was a military commander, yeah, I'd go for saturating a place with drugs to keep the people there from planting IED's way before I would trust history books to do so. Just strikes me as way more reliable.

If history is any indication, using history books to get people to behave decently doesn't seem terribly reliable at all.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#35

Wow - that's a grim read. And this is what we know the CIA is up to plus I think some of the "war on terror" dark site work?

They're definitely pretty dark. When you have torturers who have been trained by Chicago Police officers, you know they are good at what they do. You don't want to mess with those guys.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#37
post #9

Really makes you wonder what stuff they're doing now that will be declassified in a few decades

MKUltra was the US program that expounded on the research done by the Germans, Japanese, and Soviets (sometimes only programs we thought they were working on and started counter-programs which then spurred the creation of counter-counter-programs...) My take is that by about the late 80's, early 90's, they had finished most of the research and transitioned into implementation at mass scale, both domestically and inte…

Yeah, why not. These programs, to me, are all about defusing populations. Keep em busy smoking and getting stoned. Maybe so.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#38
post #32

> “Some of our people were out of control in those days,” Colby said. “They went too far. There were problems of supervision and administration.” That was in 1975 talking about the events in the 1950s. There is this idea that, well CIA might have gone a bit too far, but it was a long time ago. Hiring Nazi scientists, feeding people drugs, murdering, overthrowing governments, conducting torture sessions. That was in t…

>Today they just sit at their desks and type reports like nice little bored bureaucrats.

What if they are just as evil and brutal today and we just don't know about it.

Just throwing this out here, but what if it's both. They, like every other nation in the world, are evil and brutal, and the vast majority of them are just sitting at desks somewhere doing fairly mundane jobs. That's just the nature of a modern intelligence agency I bet.

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#39
post #9

Really makes you wonder what stuff they're doing now that will be declassified in a few decades

MKUltra was the US program that expounded on the research done by the Germans, Japanese, and Soviets (sometimes only programs we thought they were working on and started counter-programs which then spurred the creation of counter-counter-programs...) My take is that by about the late 80's, early 90's, they had finished most of the research and transitioned into implementation at mass scale, both domestically and inte…

"It has been verified by a source who claims she was there that then-CIA Director William Casey did in fact say the controversial and often-disputed line “We’ll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false,” reportedly in 1981."

"In their propaganda today’s dictators rely for the most part on repetition, supression and rationalization – the repetition of catchwords which they wish to be accepted as true, the supression of facts which they wish to be ignored, the arousal and rationalization of passions which may be used in the interests of the Party or the State. As the art and science of manipulation come to be better understood, the dictators of the future will doubtless learn to combine these techniques with the non-stop distractions which, in the West, are now threatening to drown in a sea of irrelevance the rational propaganda essential to the maintenance of individual liberty and the survival of democratic institutions. -- Aldous Huxley, "Propaganda in a Democratic Society" Brave New World Revisited"

https://www.globalresearch.ca/1975-video-cia-admits-to-congr...

Re: How a deadly fall revealed CIA secrets

#40
post #36

I was honestly quite shocked whilst reading this, CIA operated facilities use to kill and test chemical weapons on volunteer soldiers? damn.

thats a good point: the fact that testing on a volunteer soldier and on army and CIA researchers, seems to suggest they wanted to compare effectiveness with the general population, since random members from the population might not be psychologically representative for foreign soldiers, secret clearance'd scientists and spies. So from this perspective testing on people of similar function / caliber from your own accessible population might seem "logical" if unethical...
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