Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

techrepublic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 248 posts

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#31

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

peterwwillis wrote: post #10
newnewpdro wrote: post #5

Docker shit so hard on the established linux community with such arrogance Jessie Frazelle, a Docker employee at the time, would gloat about closing systemd-specific PRs. She wore a name tag @ DockerCon.EU 2015 proudly showing "I say no to systemd specific PRs". Docker's plight? Good riddance.

Well, systemd sucks balls, so I kind of agree with not having PRs specific to it, but I see your point that wearing that on a name tag isn't very nice.

> systemd sucks balls

No it doesn't. Shell scripts in your init system sucks balls. Systemd is great.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#32

Post by dagw »

FreeHugs wrote: post #30

Weep? Docker's downfall? What happened? As far as I can tell, everybody and his grandmother is using Docker. Why should we weep about it?

'Everybody' is using docker the software, 'nobody' is using (ie paying) Docker the company. The article makes it clear they're talking about the company.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#33

Post by sneystein »

paule89 wrote: post #15

The problem i have with cubernetes is the following: I as a small developer and small server owner don't have the ressources to even get started. The first thing i see at cubernetes is a cluster. Why a cluster. Do i need to cluster my Raspberry pi's to get something out of it? Do i need to buy 3 servers just to run 5 containers? In docker its easy. Download Docker. Start container. Install container manager like plat…

I feel until you have atleast a clusterful of services, you shouldn't add that much complexity to your applications. It's much easier to manage a single tower for as long as possible, and slowly migrate to a new one when it seems ripe

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#34

Post by thunderbong »

paule89 wrote: post #15

The problem i have with cubernetes is the following: I as a small developer and small server owner don't have the ressources to even get started. The first thing i see at cubernetes is a cluster. Why a cluster. Do i need to cluster my Raspberry pi's to get something out of it? Do i need to buy 3 servers just to run 5 containers? In docker its easy. Download Docker. Start container. Install container manager like plat…

>> I as a small developer and small server owner...

You'll never ever need either Docker or Kubernetes or even the latest and greatest javascript frameworks.

I started running a server before I knew anything and that server is still purring along happily.

But if you're ever targeting an enterprise, either as a freelancer or as an employee, those words are invaluable in your resume.

It of course helps if you actually know about those technologies!

And when you do get to learn them you'll wonder why everyone is coming full circle!

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#35

Post by jhanschoo »

Majestic121 wrote: post #22
paule89 wrote: post #15

The problem i have with cubernetes is the following: I as a small developer and small server owner don't have the ressources to even get started. The first thing i see at cubernetes is a cluster. Why a cluster. Do i need to cluster my Raspberry pi's to get something out of it? Do i need to buy 3 servers just to run 5 containers? In docker its easy. Download Docker. Start container. Install container manager like plat…

You don't need a whole cluster to get started, you can use Minikube locally for example : https://minikube.sigs.k8s.io/docs/

If uptime is not a concern and only one node is intended, docker-compose is a far more efficient solution to any k8s solution.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#36

Post by pjmlp »

paule89 wrote: post #15

The problem i have with cubernetes is the following: I as a small developer and small server owner don't have the ressources to even get started. The first thing i see at cubernetes is a cluster. Why a cluster. Do i need to cluster my Raspberry pi's to get something out of it? Do i need to buy 3 servers just to run 5 containers? In docker its easy. Download Docker. Start container. Install container manager like plat…

Why bother with containers at all at that scale then?

We keep on using plain old VMs, while watching everyone rush into containers fashion.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#37

Post by goatinaboat »

aflag wrote: post #26
goatinaboat wrote: post #21

For a very long time there was a gaping security hole in Docker: anyone who could run a container could mount anything on the underlying host as root. This says to me that Docker (the company) don’t really consider any use cases beyond “fooling around on a personal laptop”. Meanwhile other container projects took seriously from day 1 that they would need to run in production. Docker (the company) certainly helped to…

That's only a problem if you allow untrusted users operate the docker daemon.

That's only a problem if you allow untrusted users operate the docker daemon.

Sure, if you trust every developer in your company with the root password anyway, why not? That might be true at Docker (the company), I don’t know. Certainly wasn’t true at one company I worked at with 30,000 devs...

By the way, this problem does not exist with competing container tools like Podman/Buildah.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#38

Post by brutus1213 »

joshpadnick wrote: post #6

This article seems to be arguing that Docker’s primary downfall was being hostile to its open source community. Without having an opinion on whether that’s true, I suspect the core issue was not that but their business model and execution. Before Kubernetes was the dominant container tech, they were pushing Swarm but I remember being confused about where Docker “standalone” stopped and where Swarm began. Perhaps it w…

Totally agree with your first paragraph. Regarding execution, I'm not sure what Docker could have done differently that did not lead to the outcome we have today. I don't think that playing nice with other opensource devs would have made a difference (as the article claims).

Also .. the K was hardened at Google is BS. The ideas, maybe. But I am quite skeptical about the amount of prod internal google code went into early K (pls don't point at the Borg paper .. I'm talking about actual working code). I recall doing a deep comparison of swarm vs K circa 2015 and Swarm was clearly superior in both design and implementation. Today, K is better and has an ecosystem .. maybe the issue isn't that core Docker containers played nice with opensource .. rather .. swarm should have focused much more on playing well with others.

One point of contrast is Hashicorp .. they are in the workload orchestration and mgmt space and seem to be doing really well. Kudos to them!

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#39

Post by dguaraglia »

hadsed wrote: post #7

Whenever the topic of building online open source communities comes up I feel compelled to share the work of the great Pieter Hintjens, the guy who wrote zero MQ. He wrote a book about this topic which I thought was quite good: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30121783-social-architec...

Pieter was an outstanding writer. Everything I've read from him was top notch, from his ZeroMQ guide to the last blog posts explaining how he was dealing with the unthinkable process of getting his affairs in order because he know he'd die soon. I'll definitely add this to my reading list.

Re: Why doesn’t anyone weep for Docker?

#40

Post by tofflos »

I jumped on the container bandwagon late and immediately fell in love with Docker. It built on my existing skill set so I was quickly able to get something up and running.

Then I started tinkering with Docker Compose and for a while things were great. But after a while I started running into issues. Compose felt artificially crippled. No secrets? No health checks? Pushing me towards Docker Swarm?

Eventually I just sucked it up and switched to Kubernetes even though I think it's overkill for my applications.

Post reply on HN