Live data from Hacker News

In Defense Of The PhD

soundandcomplete.com

31–40 of 46 posts

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#31
post #5

As it happens, I'm defending my dissertation tomorrow (neuroscience, U.S.) and this post pretty well sums up my sentiment. I particularly agree with the ending: Oh you’re saying I’m a dreamer, and that simply never happens? Well what about those thousands of internet start-up companies? They waste their time as well, trying to become another Facebook or another Google. Yet they still do it, because it’s their dream t…

Best of luck!

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. In Norway, there is a similar problem with the "four-year" rule, which means it becomes very hard to fire someone who has worked for an employer for over four years. Now the PhD of course also takes four years, and PhD students are employees. In practice, almost no-one claims the four-year rule following, say, the PhD and a short-term research-assistant engagement (there was a recent case where two people in Osl…

The PhD contract is just a single contract, and a position only becomes permanent after a third contract in a number of years I think. Once you get your PhD, and you're rehired at the university, you get a different position, starting the counter from 0 again. But no, if Norway had the three contract rule as I described, the people you know would have been fired already.

> the people you know would have been fired already.

I guess you're right, though who knows what those pesky unions might have said.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#33

After weeks of PhD bashing here is one article which successfully defends it against a lot of arguments against a PhD. I especially like the comparison of an academic career with the startup track.

As pointed out elsewhere the comparison don't hold up. Startups are high risk high return. That can't be said about PHDs

You are comparing top startups to mediocre Ph.D.'s. Top academia is very high-risk and very competitive. You take on very difficult research problems in the hope of becoming famous (but you may never be able to solve them). The rewards are accordingly high - having a large impact on the world, getting tenure to do what you love for the rest of your life, being surrounded by the best people in your field.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#34
post #22
post #4

Normal people don’t study philosophy, and if they’re into computer science, they don’t care whether P!=NP — they just learn Java, Objective-C, Python or whatever else they find useful for becoming a successful software engineer. I resent that. Most programmers I've met find theoretical CS interesting, and learn things simply for the intellectual value of it. They just want to build things people use.

My experience is almost exactly the opposite. Most programmers care little to nothing about any sort of CS or theory. I've met successful programmers with years of experience who'd never even heard of even the simplest CS concepts like linked lists. How their language of choice actually works below the surface is a complete black box to them, and they're quite happy to keep it that way. If you meet a programmer who c…

I think what you're saying can easily be extrapolated to any vocation...

There are people who are passionate about what they do, and then there vastly more people who are doing it simply because it's a job.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#35
post #13

I'll defend the PhD for different reasons. It educates you further. You acquire knowledge you don't get elsewhere. You get a range of skills and learning opportunities you don't get elsewhere - some of which are very useful when trying to discover new human knowledge. Research labs in universities do - and have traditionally - discovered much new human knowledge; they are good at it. Using earnings as the sole measur…

  >> Of course, if you view a PhD purely as training 
  >> for academic positions, then clearly something is broken,
  >> because there are very few academic positions.
It always surprises me when people think this. It stands to reason that in a non-expanding market that each professor can on average train only one replacement in his/her entire career.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#36
> Normal people don’t study philosophy

Well, I don't want to sound like a douche or anything, but they really do know how to pick their words, don't they? Following the same logic only Plato would qualify as a true philosopher (he's the evil mind behind all this "academia" concept anyway), while Democritus, one of the few philosophers who actually knew what he was saying, would just be seen as an amateur.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#37
post #5

As it happens, I'm defending my dissertation tomorrow (neuroscience, U.S.) and this post pretty well sums up my sentiment. I particularly agree with the ending: Oh you’re saying I’m a dreamer, and that simply never happens? Well what about those thousands of internet start-up companies? They waste their time as well, trying to become another Facebook or another Google. Yet they still do it, because it’s their dream t…

Break a leg! I defended mine last month, and let me tell you- the sense of relief afterwards is amazing.

Thanks very much for the well wishes you guys. I am very much looking forward to that sense of relief. In the coming week or two I will probably post a 'Show HN' of my project (wiring diagrams of neuronal connectivity).

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#38

I'm happy I'm currently in the middle of my PhD, but this article makes a bunch of errors. It generally strikes me as the naive impression that undergrad have of grad school until they spend some time talking to post-doc and professors. I'll just identify a couple of obvious ones. 1. "We all read the PhD Comics and we all hear about how many hours of coursework or admin-duties a typical US grad student has. I don’t k…

I don't know where you're getting 2 from. To throw one anecdote out there, my advisor, who has experience with hiring committees, has told me that for academic positions, they're looking for a wide range of things - including demonstrated teaching ability. And for professors (even at a research facility), poor student reviews of classes you've taught can get in the way of being awarded tenure.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#39
post #13

I'll defend the PhD for different reasons. It educates you further. You acquire knowledge you don't get elsewhere. You get a range of skills and learning opportunities you don't get elsewhere - some of which are very useful when trying to discover new human knowledge. Research labs in universities do - and have traditionally - discovered much new human knowledge; they are good at it. Using earnings as the sole measur…

My dad has worked at a grocery store for almost 33 years, and he's 50 years old. He always made good money (especially for not having a degree), and did a good job, but I never felt like he actually liked his job, especially with all the crap he has to go through from both employees and bosses. He's been salary for a long time, and has worked probably an average of 60+ hours a week for the past 12 years. This always…

"I don't know anyone who has gone to school for a PhD just to get a better paying job when they get out."

Now you know of one.

Re: In Defense Of The PhD

#40
post #5

As it happens, I'm defending my dissertation tomorrow (neuroscience, U.S.) and this post pretty well sums up my sentiment. I particularly agree with the ending: Oh you’re saying I’m a dreamer, and that simply never happens? Well what about those thousands of internet start-up companies? They waste their time as well, trying to become another Facebook or another Google. Yet they still do it, because it’s their dream t…

I attended my first dissertation recently and it has energized me to finish my master and to suss out a nice PhD for myself. To be able to discuss my ideas for a couple of hours: yes please!

Have a ball tomorrow!

Post reply on HN