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Golden Ratio

melted.design

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Re: Golden Ratio

#31

Post by nessunodoro »

To me the connection between the golden ratio and beauty is tied to iterated function systems, and fractals. I feel like it boils down to efficiency of representation of a larger system. If a complex, balanced system can be represented efficiently by a small number of values, variables, and operations, then it's favored by the universe somehow, and by our mind's eye. It "snaps into place" more easily, it aligns with itself, and therefore our conception of it is also performed with less work, more "naturally."

The golden rectangle and spiral represent this best to me. The whole is found in the parts, infinitely, the further you iterate, like looking down a well and seeing all the way to the bottom. It's gratifying to conceive of more by doing less. I wish I were better with words, but I do feel φ's beauty somehow boils down to efficiency of representation.

Re: Golden Ratio

#33

Post by lawrenceyan »

nessunodoro wrote: post #31

To me the connection between the golden ratio and beauty is tied to iterated function systems, and fractals. I feel like it boils down to efficiency of representation of a larger system. If a complex, balanced system can be represented efficiently by a small number of values, variables, and operations, then it's favored by the universe somehow, and by our mind's eye. It "snaps into place" more easily, it aligns with…

And the reason why systems generally default to simpler representations over more complex ones in nature is because the process of evolution is in many ways basically just a very slow random search. Simpler solutions fundamentally are more likely to occur than complex ones. Of course over many iterations of simple changes, an overarching complexity often can seemingly emerge over time.

Also, to be 100% accurate, I should say that technically evolution is a form of a genetic algorithm which is slightly different and more constrained than a pure random search, but it's not that big of a deal with respect to this conversation.

Re: Golden Ratio

#34

Post by yowlingcat »

nessunodoro wrote: post #31

To me the connection between the golden ratio and beauty is tied to iterated function systems, and fractals. I feel like it boils down to efficiency of representation of a larger system. If a complex, balanced system can be represented efficiently by a small number of values, variables, and operations, then it's favored by the universe somehow, and by our mind's eye. It "snaps into place" more easily, it aligns with…

There's an interesting correlation to information theory and compressibility. Someone did an analysis of pop lyrics[1] where they compressed the plaintext using a lossless compression algorithm and determined that (as expected) many pop songs compress very well and are highly redundant. But taken another angle, this could also represent that we as human beings find lyrics which have high degrees of self-similarity with small amounts of variation to be pleasing to the ear, which tracks with what makes pop music (which must be singable and usually danceable to go viral) successful.

[1] https://pudding.cool/2017/05/song-repetition/

Re: Golden Ratio

#35

Post by hota_mazi »

Terrible article:

> Let’s imagine that you need to start your design by creating a line. Next, you copy it and divide it into two parts, getting two shapes a) the first line, and b) the second one.

What does this even mean? What are the constraints between these two lines that leads to that ratio to be the golden ratio?!?

Re: Golden Ratio

#36

Post by Red_Tarsius »

dmix wrote: post #19
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of the classic proportions described by Jay Hambridge in The Elements of Dynamic Symmetry (1926). He was an art historian who argued that the Greco-Roman art and architecture was based on root rectangles . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_rectangle#Jay_Hambidge I just noticed that Wersin is mentioned right after him! Hambridge's theories were quite controversial, but the book is an enjoyable read…

Have you found any utility in this stuff with your work? I mostly just use frameworks that think about this stuff for me while working hard to keep consistency in spacing (padding, margins, etc) which functional ones like basscss and tachyons do a good job of pushing you towards (much more than Bootcamp and others).

I'm not sure that system translates well on book/website layouts, because imposing that structure might get into the way of setting the optimal line length and text size for a given width. Dynamic rectangles are more suited for planning the overall composition of illustrations/photos – the "rule of third" is a simplified version of what Hambridge talks about. He also mentions how to use the diagonals to convey different emotions.

Re: Golden Ratio

#37

Post by hos234 »

nessunodoro wrote: post #31

To me the connection between the golden ratio and beauty is tied to iterated function systems, and fractals. I feel like it boils down to efficiency of representation of a larger system. If a complex, balanced system can be represented efficiently by a small number of values, variables, and operations, then it's favored by the universe somehow, and by our mind's eye. It "snaps into place" more easily, it aligns with…

"favored by the universe somehow"

With a large enough population, you are going to end up with the same representation (structure of neurons, glial cells etc) in some subset of brains.

As a painter, I am very aware that taste is not as universal as is constantly advertised. Some people like the shades of blue I use and some don't or are indifferent. Why I chose that blue and why they liked that blue is cause we probably share, in some small corner of a trillion brain cells, a small clump of structure that's exactly alike.

Re: Golden Ratio

#39

Post by ebg13 »

A gigantic image that fills my screen, and then teeny tiny text that I need a microscope to make out. This is design, I guess. Thanks, golden ratio! What ever happened to "Type is to Read"?

Re: Golden Ratio

#40

Post by chevas »

endorphone wrote: post #4

"Golden Ratio is a natural ratio found everywhere. From flowers to shells, from our fingers to the galaxy, this mathematical ratio makes all forms look visually balanced and gratifying." Both of those claims have been broadly debunked, and the so-called golden ratio is grossly oversold.

Designer here. I went all in on the Golden Ratio for a season. It was good for some things, bad for others—kind of like everything else. I never thought about it with regards to type sizing so I may try that. That said, it will utterly ruin some things.
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