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SSB Rooms: a new server type for Scuttlebutt

manyver.se

31–35 of 35 posts

Re: SSB Rooms: a new server type for Scuttlebutt

#31
post #2

Please change the name of this project. It sounds very bad..

The only reason I can think of to justify a name change is that both SSB and scuttlebutt are terms used in sailing. Initially I thought it was a single side band radio based chat room system for sailors.

It was created by a sailor who wanted a way to talk to his friends. So the name actually fits.

Re: SSB Rooms: a new server type for Scuttlebutt

#32

Apologies, @staltz could you expand more? Is this centralized? Or federated, along the lines of Mastodon? Why not do this decentralized? Should be possible. NAB (p2p Reddit) does something similar with GUN via "spaces" that are under a public key, but requires no centralized host/server/etc. should be trivial to do the same in SSB.

Rooms are decentralized. It's not following the end-to-end principle, because rooms are intermediaries, but there can be many rooms, they are fungible, and they are not hard coded anywhere. It's possible to build similar functionality on a DHT, but it has a couple of downsides:

1. The bootstrapping servers for DHTs are legitimately centralized and hard-coded servers 2. On a DHT you leak your IP address to many other peers, with rooms you leak your IP address only to the room administrator. (This is supposing without an anonymization layer, which would have some non-negligible overhead) 3. Connecting to DHT peers is not as reliable and consistently functioning as a static IP address, considering all sorts of network situations, specially mobile data plans

That said, I don't have anything against DHTs, and in fact I might improve how Manyverse uses DHTs. I just think it's important that users know the drawbacks of each approach, and then users can choose whichever approach fits their needs best. This is why Manyverse focuses on multiple connectivity modes: LAN, Bluetooth, Pubs, Rooms, DHTs. I think the more of these we have, the more resilient the network will be. So my argument isn't for rooms instead of DHTs, my argument is that adding rooms is good to fill in a gap in choices for connectivity.

Re: SSB Rooms: a new server type for Scuttlebutt

#34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably, thanks. Iris (built with Gun) has "degrees of separation" as well. https://iris.to/ I believe SSB does have degrees, but I'm not sure how many.

They like to call the relationships "hops" in SSB. I think Manyverse replicates only 2 hops (the people you follow directly and then the people they follow), but the desktop client replicates 3 hops.

I think the reason that SSB isn't super well documented yet is probably because the protocol is still subject to change and not yet set in stone. I think Manyverse tweeted something about how SSB might get mutability and a delete propagation message in the future even.

Regarding "degrees of separation". I think it makes sense to have the degrees be

1. "I have met this person in real life, known them for a long time, and can confirm that they are who they say they are".

2. "I only know this person through the app, but we both like and respect each other and are friends"

3. This is either a 1st or 2nd degree relationship of one of my 1st or 2nd degree relationships.

So theoretically 1 and 2 are the same, the difference being you like scanned a physical QR code verifying 1 and know them IRL for example.

That way the degrees can double as a "web of trust" that serves as identity verification.

Re: SSB Rooms: a new server type for Scuttlebutt

#35
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we can just get over it like git and a number of other things. I tend to be rather conservative in what I utter myself but I will actively defend the right of projects to use uncommon English words as names. In fact I think it is a net positive.

Meanwhile folks defend "GIMP", a confirmed sexual and ablest term, to the death.

When I search for gimp on ddg, the whole front page is filled with information about the GNU Image Manipulation Program. You can try for yourself here: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=GIMP&t=fpas&ia=about

If anything, if people actually cared about the disabled they should rejoice that this word is getting a new meaning. I for one didn't know the original meaning of that word until someone line you told me.

Oh, and if we give in on this the battle doesn't stop there, seems "butt" is next in line: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20831167

:)

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