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SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

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Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#31
post #28

This smells like walking into bankruptcy. SoftBank was missing some billions for its own new fund and the solution is create debt to fund the fund. Since it's illegal for themselves to invest in their own... they workaround it through it's own employees. If a workaround/scheme is required to obtain enough capital for the fund... that means that either there isn't enough capital in the world or that the owners of such…

OP says SoftBank contributes for 38b to their own 100b fund directly, so i don’t think your explanation is correct... Plus they apparently did the same thing in their first fund a few years ago.

Correct, thanks for that note.

It seems that SoftBank wants to fund directly 38b$ and indirectly 20b$ through employees.

In the first fund SoftBank contribution seems to have been 28B$ in a total of 93$B.

It seems that SoftBank is having a hard time getting the Saudi Arabia to invest again in the new fund. In the first one they put 45B$.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#32
post #27

It's important to understand what SoftBank is, and why betting against them is a bad idea. Globally we are going through a period of deflation. Japanese Banks have been dealing with this problem for 30 years now. BOJ can print money ( yen ) and flood the world and the value of the yen would still go up ! The reason is there is a lot of latent demand for Japanese exports. When Softbank invests in lets say India, ( thr…

I'm really not understanding this. What you seem to be saying is that when Softbank succeeds they get to own a load of tech companies. That's great, that's the upside of any VC. Where I'm not understanding is you're saying when they fail, the money they've lost has gone into stimulating demand for japanese goods and kept the currency low. But firstly, that's still them failing - the company will fail, ROI will be low…

If you want a full comprehensive understanding of what is going on I highly recommend :

- https://www.amazon.com/Princes-Yen-Central-Bankers-Transform...

There is a huge overlap here with MMT ( Modern Monetary Theory ), but the book was published way before MMT become more widely read. Richard studies what happened in Japan from an economic history prespective. ( I will do a dis-service to the whole topic trying to explain everything in a few sentences, but I will try to answer specific point raised ).

> I just don't understand, because what you seem to be saying is that for a primarily export based economy, you should just print money always.

As an exporter you cant help but accumulate FOREX. so the value of the yen would always head north, if you want to stay a top exporter you have to constantly print money to balance out your FOREX accumulation.

> Surely there must be downside?

Nope, no downside when you build capital goods that everybody else wants.

> Normally I'd say this maps to inflation and squeezed living standards- but are we just no longer seeing those effects?

inflation happens when aggregate demand > aggregate supply. If you are not supply constrained then inflation wont happen regardless of how much money you print.

Japan specifically could print unimaginable amount of money and use it to create whatever technology they want.

Technology acts as an accelerator to this deflation doom loops, since these technology products further increase supply or reduce cost.

You might have hard limits due to physical commodities like oil. But technology has been able to squeeze even more value out each unit.

> Where I'm not understanding is you're saying when they fail, the money they've lost has gone into stimulating demand for Japanese goods and kept the currency low. But firstly, that's still them failing - the company will fail, ROI will be low. It might help the domestic Japanese manufacturing industry, but it's not going to help softbank.

Japanese banks are very much interwoven with their state, softbank might get certain lending quota from BOJ that they must lend out. Remember if Japan doen't print yen and spread it around then their deflation problem gets worse. My personal opinion is Japan should pay attention to their domestic proverty problem, they could just implement UBI, but having too much Yen domestically wont solve their deflation problem. The last time they tried helicopter money, everybody just bought government bonds, making the problem worse ! So they might prefer to figure out to create demand in foreign markets.

> It's probably not even 5% - the vast majority of the money will be going to stimulate the Indian economy.

I do not think Japan really cares if the Indian economy is stimulated or not, they just want there to be healthy demand for Japanese products, printing money and lending it out and then suffering some loss might even be preferable to having a large marketing and advertisement industry like we do in the West.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but here's one way: Softbank invests in Uber India pushing up automobile demand[1]. Indian drivers buy cars manufactured by Maruti Suzuki (54% market share [2]). Maruti Suzuki is a JV between an Indian company (Maruti) and Suzuki (Japan) where-in Maruti pays 6% of sales as royalty for design and other facilities. In addition, you have to realize that Japan exports $35b of auto parts and $101b of automobiles [4…

+1 Indeed, one of the reasons for the current auto-slowdown in India appears to be the drastic decrease in benefits offered by Taxi aggregators, which is hitting taxi drivers hard. Can't complain, since taxis saturate the roads in Bengaluru already.

> taxis saturate the roads in Bangalore already

In Indiranagar (a popular, hip neighbourhood in Bangalore), you might have to wait for an hour to get an Uber or Ola, on weekday mornings too! Hence a lot of people are using Yulu (India's Bird).

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#34
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 Indeed, one of the reasons for the current auto-slowdown in India appears to be the drastic decrease in benefits offered by Taxi aggregators, which is hitting taxi drivers hard. Can't complain, since taxis saturate the roads in Bengaluru already.

> taxis saturate the roads in Bangalore already In Indiranagar (a popular, hip neighbourhood in Bangalore), you might have to wait for an hour to get an Uber or Ola, on weekday mornings too! Hence a lot of people are using Yulu (India's Bird).

Add HSR Layout to that list , too. I’ve started using a combination of Bounce( two wheeler point-to-point rental ) for <2km travel , public transport for longer distance travel and cabs as the last option.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple+ more invest in the Softbank Vision fund, so the "SoftBank round" is already what you are thinking. Yeah, but by doing this they essentially outsource the process to Softbank. I'm assuming OP is curious why they won't make the decisions themselves.

The Vision Fund is, among other things, the manifestation of the idea that an order of magnitude more scale will qualitatively change VC investing. VC funds historically have been in the hundreds of millions, so you can invest up to tens of millions in any one company to keep a balanced portfolio. SoftBank's Vision is in the hundreds of billions, so it can invest up to hundreds of millions. This means they can single…

>No one company could do it. Apple's net income last year was ~$60 billion.

Apple has somewhere around 250 billion cash on hand, so they could definitely launch a 100$ billion fund on their own.

Microsfot has about 150B. Google about 100B . Lots of companies can theoretically build such a fund.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#36

Sure we'll pay you, but the only place you can shop is the company store.

No. There's no requirement they invest the loans in the Vision Fund. Nor is there a requirement to take out the loan.

We already see something similar at law firms - partnership in a firm means literally buying into it, and one of the perks you receive at many law firms is the ability to take out a loan at favorable rates, particularly to help with said buying in.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#37
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate a bit on the part between Softbank spending on India's uber drivers resulting in an increase of Japanese exports? Is it just that there is a desire for Japanese products in India, but not enough cash?

Not OP but here's one way: Softbank invests in Uber India pushing up automobile demand[1]. Indian drivers buy cars manufactured by Maruti Suzuki (54% market share [2]). Maruti Suzuki is a JV between an Indian company (Maruti) and Suzuki (Japan) where-in Maruti pays 6% of sales as royalty for design and other facilities. In addition, you have to realize that Japan exports $35b of auto parts and $101b of automobiles [4…

Okay, now where does all the demand for these Indian taxi services come from that are actually going to pay for all of these automobile imports? It's not like Uber demand is insatiable. The notion that investing in Uber is going to drive the auto industry (which is completely contrary to the mission of these transportation companies) is an odd one.

I can see that, at the margins, a company can spend money where it thinks it it can receive complimentary benefits. But this idea that you can spend your way into riches is a fallacy.

So, I think we agree on some things, mainly that Japan is printing money and Softbank is a beneficiary and is using that cash to spread around the tech industry. Cheap money. Except I think it will backfire, eventually.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not understanding this. What you seem to be saying is that when Softbank succeeds they get to own a load of tech companies. That's great, that's the upside of any VC. Where I'm not understanding is you're saying when they fail, the money they've lost has gone into stimulating demand for japanese goods and kept the currency low. But firstly, that's still them failing - the company will fail, ROI will be low…

If you want a full comprehensive understanding of what is going on I highly recommend : - https://www.amazon.com/Princes-Yen-Central-Bankers-Transform... There is a huge overlap here with MMT ( Modern Monetary Theory ), but the book was published way before MMT become more widely read. Richard studies what happened in Japan from an economic history prespective. ( I will do a dis-service to the whole topic trying to e…

>Japan specifically could print unimaginable amount of money and use it to create whatever technology they want.

And they're not doing this because...?

We are living in truly dangerous times if people actually buy into this nonsense.

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#39
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really not understanding this. What you seem to be saying is that when Softbank succeeds they get to own a load of tech companies. That's great, that's the upside of any VC. Where I'm not understanding is you're saying when they fail, the money they've lost has gone into stimulating demand for japanese goods and kept the currency low. But firstly, that's still them failing - the company will fail, ROI will be low…

If you want a full comprehensive understanding of what is going on I highly recommend : - https://www.amazon.com/Princes-Yen-Central-Bankers-Transform... There is a huge overlap here with MMT ( Modern Monetary Theory ), but the book was published way before MMT become more widely read. Richard studies what happened in Japan from an economic history prespective. ( I will do a dis-service to the whole topic trying to e…

How is this any different from the Japanese real estate buying sprees of the 1980s?

Re: SoftBank plans to lend $20B to its CEO and employees amid volatile markets

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a full comprehensive understanding of what is going on I highly recommend : - https://www.amazon.com/Princes-Yen-Central-Bankers-Transform... There is a huge overlap here with MMT ( Modern Monetary Theory ), but the book was published way before MMT become more widely read. Richard studies what happened in Japan from an economic history prespective. ( I will do a dis-service to the whole topic trying to e…

> Japan specifically could print unimaginable amount of money and use it to create whatever technology they want. And they're not doing this because...? We are living in truly dangerous times if people actually buy into this nonsense.

You are completely right. This sounds like a fringe academic theory from someone without skin in the game.
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