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Where did the melody go? (2017)

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Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the conclusion isn’t scientific at all. It’s 100% based on opinion. The author identified trends, yes, but that’s about it. Simpler and more repetitive doesn’t mean worse — it means simpler and more repetitive. Never once have I listened to a song and thought, “Wow, this sucks, these lyrics would compress really easily.”

Simpler and repetitive does mean worse.

Apologies in advance, there must be something wrong with my browser. The link to your source isn’t working.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the conclusion isn’t scientific at all. It’s 100% based on opinion. The author identified trends, yes, but that’s about it. Simpler and more repetitive doesn’t mean worse — it means simpler and more repetitive. Never once have I listened to a song and thought, “Wow, this sucks, these lyrics would compress really easily.”

I do. Something like Hotel California that invokes a vivid imagery in one's mind seems unthinkable today. I don't know whether this affects the imagination or lingual abilities of the listeners, but it certainly can not produce the same emotions.

I honestly don’t know whether you’re praising or criticizing Hotel California.

https://www.laweekly.com/the-eagles-hotel-california-why-thi...

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/12/lets-talk-abo...

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#33
post #28

My issue with this article is that it elevates the ‘melody’ dimension as somehow more worthy than the ‘sonic texture’ dimension. I think both have equal merit and I enjoy complexity along both dimensions. Modern music seems to have the highest sonic texture complexity of any music so far and is enjoyable for that. Bach has high melodic complexity but low texture complexity. I suspect high complexity along all 4 dimen…

I wouldn’t say modern electronic music has a higher level of ‘sonic texture’ than orchestral music, or any music using traditional instruments. The difference is that in modern music ‘sonic texture’ is an explicit mode of “authorial expression.” The sonic textures creates by acoustic instruments are arguably richer, as they are capable of much more subtle modes of expression as playable instruments. It’s just the cas…

>> "The sonic textures creates by acoustic instruments are arguably richer, as they are capable of much more subtle modes of expression as playable instruments."

Synths are slowly catching up. You can pack quite a lot of expression into Serum with two wavetable oscillators, a noise and sub oscillator, modulating anything by note or velocity, alternate tunings, and a wide range of modulatable adjustments.

It's not a viola, but you can make some very unique instruments with it. Most people use it to make yet another dubstep bass or hypersaw, but the potential is there.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#34

Modern music has regressed into something primitive and tribal. In other words, completely mind numbing garbage. And it just gets worse every year. Post Malone is a good indication of just how fast Western society is falling.

>> "Modern music has regressed into something primitive and tribal. In other words, completely mind numbing garbage. And it just gets worse every year."

The blending of hip hop into everything has been a huge boon for the evolution of western music just like the merger with jazz was in the '50s.

"Primitive"/"tribal" people had some good ideas that sometimes get lost in our panicked attempts to set ourselves ever-further above our roots.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#35
post #33
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t say modern electronic music has a higher level of ‘sonic texture’ than orchestral music, or any music using traditional instruments. The difference is that in modern music ‘sonic texture’ is an explicit mode of “authorial expression.” The sonic textures creates by acoustic instruments are arguably richer, as they are capable of much more subtle modes of expression as playable instruments. It’s just the cas…

>> "The sonic textures creates by acoustic instruments are arguably richer, as they are capable of much more subtle modes of expression as playable instruments." Synths are slowly catching up. You can pack quite a lot of expression into Serum with two wavetable oscillators, a noise and sub oscillator, modulating anything by note or velocity, alternate tunings, and a wide range of modulatable adjustments. It's not a v…

I like Serum a lot, but it has the same set of issues that make all of these digital synths limited as performance instruments compared to, say, a piano.

The issue starts with the low resolution of MIDI. Most instruments implement only velocity connected to keys, with max 128 layers of resolution.

A real piano has near infinite resolution on velocity alone.

This exacerbates the issue that digital synths are generally deterministic, meaning for the same input they produce the same output.

Because the resolution of the controller is so low, attempts to introduce variety rely on randomness. In an acoustic instrument the same sound cant ever be produced twice. But this is a result of a complex, chaotic system, not randomness.

A major factor in the inherently chaotic sound is that each note is exciting the same physical object, even a note played with the same velocity (like a disklavier piano system could) will sound different every time based on the state of the whole large object. As notes are added to a chord or arpeggio, they are not just superimposed over each other, instead they each contribute their energy to the whole object.

The use of mod wheels definitely helps with expressiveness in the hands of a good player.

But my sense is that even “players” are forgoing using these instruments as performance tools, and instead loop the sections, and piece through the whole song, listening carefully, modifying the midi data directly based on what they a hearing.

This has definitely resulted in some very imaginative and striking work, but, to my ear anyway, it has a very different feel as a mode of artistic expression. It’s more “cerebral” in some way.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#36
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "The sonic textures creates by acoustic instruments are arguably richer, as they are capable of much more subtle modes of expression as playable instruments." Synths are slowly catching up. You can pack quite a lot of expression into Serum with two wavetable oscillators, a noise and sub oscillator, modulating anything by note or velocity, alternate tunings, and a wide range of modulatable adjustments. It's not a v…

I like Serum a lot, but it has the same set of issues that make all of these digital synths limited as performance instruments compared to, say, a piano. The issue starts with the low resolution of MIDI. Most instruments implement only velocity connected to keys, with max 128 layers of resolution. A real piano has near infinite resolution on velocity alone. This exacerbates the issue that digital synths are generally…

MIDI 2.0 will likely improve the situation. 4,294,967,296 possible values isn't enough to match a real instrument's range, but it's quite a bit better than 127! Serum has two chaos oscillators that help avoid deterministic-y music. Too many preset designers skip them.

Take a look at Sphere from Echo Sound Works. They sampled a bunch of real instruments and used them for wavetables and noises for Serum presets.

https://kyefox.com/soundware-explorer-sphere-from-echo-sound...

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#37
post #18

I've tried to introduce my kids (who are college age) to the pleasures of classical music, mostly to no avail. I just recently rewatched the movie Amadeus (a 1984 masterpiece on Mozart) with my daughter, and she liked it. I highly recommend it. It was nominated for 11 Academy Awards and won 8.

It's a very enjoyable movie, but it's almost pure fiction, just so you know.

Yes, Hollywood isn’t very good at presenting the unvarnished truth.

I felt that the movie and particularly Salier’s (fictional?) role as a competitive observer of Mozart in the movie reifys the absolute genius of Mozart in a particularly effective way.

I notice that my daughter and her friends now really like Queen’s music because of Bohemian Rhapsody. In addition to Amadeus I’ve suggested The Buddy Holly Story, Ray, Coal Miner’s Daughter, and Le Bamba to her—all movies that I really enjoyed that might widen her appreciation of music outside of what she hears most today.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#38
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do. Something like Hotel California that invokes a vivid imagery in one's mind seems unthinkable today. I don't know whether this affects the imagination or lingual abilities of the listeners, but it certainly can not produce the same emotions.

I honestly don’t know whether you’re praising or criticizing Hotel California. • https://www.laweekly.com/the-eagles-hotel-california-why-thi... • https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/12/lets-talk-abo...

Think what you want about the song, but the lyrics are descriptive yet metaphorical. I made this example because I assumed everyone is familiar with it. The point is: the lyrics don't just consist of "I did this, I did that, yeah yeah yeah".

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#39
post #36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like Serum a lot, but it has the same set of issues that make all of these digital synths limited as performance instruments compared to, say, a piano. The issue starts with the low resolution of MIDI. Most instruments implement only velocity connected to keys, with max 128 layers of resolution. A real piano has near infinite resolution on velocity alone. This exacerbates the issue that digital synths are generally…

MIDI 2.0 will likely improve the situation. 4,294,967,296 possible values isn't enough to match a real instrument's range, but it's quite a bit better than 127! Serum has two chaos oscillators that help avoid deterministic-y music. Too many preset designers skip them. Take a look at Sphere from Echo Sound Works. They sampled a bunch of real instruments and used them for wavetables and noises for Serum presets. https:…

> 4,294,967,296 possible values isn't enough to match a real instrument's range

I don't think this is true -- I doubt our ears can recognize a 2^-32 difference in anything, and there's no way physical instruments can be played with that kind of precision either.

Re: Where did the melody go? (2017)

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the conclusion isn’t scientific at all. It’s 100% based on opinion. The author identified trends, yes, but that’s about it. Simpler and more repetitive doesn’t mean worse — it means simpler and more repetitive. Never once have I listened to a song and thought, “Wow, this sucks, these lyrics would compress really easily.”

Simpler and repetitive does mean worse.

Simpler and repetitive does mean worse - for you. I actually agree with you, but I know plenty of people that love club/dance music, which is about as simple and repetitive as you can get. I think it's important to take the context of the music being played/performed as well: a simple, repetitive piece would likely not be received well in an orchestra hall, while a song with complex melody, deep lyrics, and rich harmony would likely be skipped at a football tailgate party. Music serves several functions in many different environments, and labeling a piece or style as universally worse is almost never true.
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