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What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

thestatsgeek.com

31–40 of 95 posts

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#31

The classic explanation is Lei Breiman's 'Two Cultures' paper. He was a statistics professor who left for industry, came back, and tried to get academics to adapt industry approaches. The paper is very readable. http://www2.math.uu.se/~thulin/mm/breiman.pdf An oversimplified version may be: Statistics focuses on fitting data to formally understandable models, whereas data science focuses on solving problems -- even i…

This seems perfectly fair. And I think that historically there was plenty of use for statistics where people didn't care about the formal understanding, so they were doing crude machine learning before the term became widespread.

I've sat through lengthy discussions of machine learning exercises, and could not silence the voice in my head, saying: "This is just curve fitting." Fitting data to an arbitrary curve, and then extrapolating the fitting function, is as old as the hills.

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#33

Can someone correct me, if I'm wrong, but statistics doesn't allow Turing-complete models, right? Machine learning certainly allows that (for example an RNN).

Depends what you mean. At the least, you can easily use statistics to talk about how well an rnn works. It may be that we can reduce an rnn to a distribution, someday.

It does seem true that statistics are more suited to describe analytical models. But, that seems as much a quirk of history than a foregone conclusion.

As an easy example, I can give you the statistics of my bike ride. Such that you can get a pretty solid understanding of what my next week's worth of rides will be like, per the parameters used in the description. This does basically nothing to help you build a bike. Or make the ride yourself. So too, would a statistical model of an rnn be.

And indeed, this is no different than a statistical model for how often humans will make mistakes see any process. Or a model for how many students will successfully learn a topic.

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#34
post #15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody owes it to themselves to read Breiman's Two Cultures[1]: > There are two cultures in the use of statistical modeling to reach conclusions from data. One assumes that the data are generated by a given stochastic data model. The other uses algorithmic models and treats the data mechanism as unknown. The statistical community has been committed to the almost exclusive use of data models. This commitment has le…

That seems to paint random forests as too magical. Rather, to me, random forests are just assuming that there is a BDD to get your answer. You aren't making statistical assumptions of the data, per se. However, you are assuming you can keep doing some sort of split on the data. Such that lower levels of the tree should be somewhat interpretable. Same for the highest levels. It is just the walk from high to low that i…

I don't think random forests are "magical" at all. I think you can walk a non-technical audience from decision trees to bagged and boosted forests on a whiteboard in under an hour. (I don't think you can do this nearly as well for maximum likelihood estimation, honestly.) But there's still a difference between a mathematical function that you're trying to find the optimal values for and something that's defined by an algorithm that there's no single function to optimize.

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#35
post #34
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to paint random forests as too magical. Rather, to me, random forests are just assuming that there is a BDD to get your answer. You aren't making statistical assumptions of the data, per se. However, you are assuming you can keep doing some sort of split on the data. Such that lower levels of the tree should be somewhat interpretable. Same for the highest levels. It is just the walk from high to low that i…

I don't think random forests are "magical" at all. I think you can walk a non-technical audience from decision trees to bagged and boosted forests on a whiteboard in under an hour. (I don't think you can do this nearly as well for maximum likelihood estimation, honestly.) But there's still a difference between a mathematical function that you're trying to find the optimal values for and something that's defined by an…

But, at the end of the day, you can get some easy to understand statistics from building a decision tree. Based on population makeup, you'll know solid numbers on how many will be expected to hit each outcome.

Such that optimizing some other function based on the application of a decision tree is effectively a statistical question. A natural one.

Indeed, I'm not sure I see the difference. One is just explainable based on understandings of distributions and trusting that they hold. One is explainable based on understanding of decisions, and trusting those remain the best decisions.

I used my bike ride as an example earlier. It is made up of many decisions to get home. Knowing what all of those decisions are can help build up a solid range of when I'm likely to get home. For the level of accuracy I typically care about, so does just knowing the rough distribution of how long I typically take.

How are both of those not statistical in nature? One is just more fully exploring a space with ridiculous computational power, whereas the other is generalizing to a much quicker answer. Right?

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#36
post #12

I can't speak for all of machine learning, but classic statistics has some probabilistic assumptions and uses those to prove some theorems about the results of how statistical methods manipulate data. E.g., in regression analysis, the assumptions are (i) there really is a linear mode with the variables to be used; (ii) typically the data will not fit the model exactly and instead there are errors; (iii) the errors ar…

Errata: Replace "mode" with "model"!

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#37
post #11

That's easy - statisticians take pride in models that are understandable, while machine learning practitioners take pride in models that are not.

Understandable? Two words: statistical significance :P I've seen university employees who still don't understand what it is and can't explain it...and just about everyone who uses it gets it wrong...

On the +J+

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#38
The difference is in how the output is evaluated.

An ML model is evaluated empirically. You compare to real world results and get an accuracy measure. An ML models tells you what something should be. And if it’s a good model, you will get a pretty high frequency of that model telling you what the thing is.

Statistics does something entirely different. It tells you what something could be.

If you flip a coin, an ML model will tell you if it’s heads or tails. Statistics will tell you how often it will be heads or tails.

Another way to think about it is the difference between probability and likelihood.

Probability is measured by your theoretical priors and hypotheses. Likelihood is measured by the results of actual trials.

The probability of a fair coin landing on heads is .5

But the likelihood of that happening isn’t actually .5 because pure frequentist probabilities depend on some fundamentally problematic things. Like a performative infinite number of trials.

The actual line between ML and statistics is really blurry because all useful statistical models are at least a little Bayesian. Priors get updated with each trial. This is essentially machine learning.

Outside of mostly bad/soft sciences (sociology, psychology, neuroscience, nutrition, and climatology are all pretty godawful about abusing classical statistics) pure frequentist statistics don’t get used much because they are really only useful for getting papers published and generating squawking headlines.

Most useful statistical methods are machine learning methods. Specifically, they are applied Bayesian methods with weak, randomized priors. Which is exactly what ML is.

I sound like I hate statistics. I don’t really. ML models can do a bunch of wacky things. There isn’t a coherent theory behind an ML model. You could point a very good classifier at your wife, and it might tell you [(bird,.1), (apple,.3), (woman,.9)]

That’s not a realistic interpretation of what could be. It just happened to get that correct.

A really excellent ML model in 2016 could’ve given the following result for president [(trump,.8), (obama,.6), (rock,.5)]. And after the fact when we can compare it to what happened, it would seem accurate.

But that doesn’t tell us the range of possibilities in our future. The reality in 2016 was that we weren’t going to elect a fucking rock as president. There was no chance of that. There is zero chance that if I point my camera at my girlfriend, she might actually be a potato. Yeah, the ML model might be right because it has guessed right, and that’s often all we care about.

But if I need to know what my chances are of my girlfriend becoming my wife or the mother of my children. That’s where we need statistics. An ML model can’t have those kinds of priors baked in unless you force it. And if you do that you’re just paying someone to do some really expensive Bayesian regression.

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#39
post #29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice comment, but there's more nuance than you claim. > You made no assumptions about your data, about the distribution of it, any of it. You just followed an algorithm. You made implicit assumptions that you are now unaware of, which might come and bite you later (eg: using zip codes or names as a proxy for race in credit scoring models, neural networks overfititng to texture and classifying a leopard print couch as…

I think what you're saying is orthogonal to what I'm saying. Yes, ZIP codes can be a proxy for race in models dealing with credit scores (and recidivism, which is also a really bad place to put racial bias), as an example. But if I put it in a mixed-effects model, it shows the same bias, and a mixed-effects model is just an extended version of linear regression. Both statistical and ML models suffer from the problem…

> machine learning is a powerful way to get pretty good results on a lot of problem spaces without having to understand the probability function involved

The NFL theorems essentially state that for every dataset on which an algorithm generalizes well, there is another on which it generalizes poorly. So, there are always implicit biases, even for a random forest model (eg: if you try to model Boolean functions with a random forest, those functions which can be approximated effectively with few trees will form a set of very small measure. Specifically, it is my intuition that those which have many terms in the sum of products form might need many trees to approximate). It then becomes a question of whether the bias of your models are compatible with the dataset/domain under consideration.

See this Minsky-Sussman koan: http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/koans.html#id3141241

> Both statistical and ML models suffer from the problem you're stating.

And that is precisely why I don’t see how ML algorithms are “more powerful” than statistics in any way, as per your claim.

Re: What’s the difference between statistics and machine learning?

#40

I'm not sure about machine learning specifically, but I heard somewhere that a data scientist is someone who does statistics, on a Mac, in San Francisco.

Can confirm

Or in Berlin eating a Big Mac.

Now let’s go back to the system admin dungeon stereotype.

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