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Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

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Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#31

Post by astura »

jlg23 wrote: post #15
klmr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

"mental"? In rural areas of central Europe you'll quite often find the Bible in hotel rooms for your nightly bible lecture.

That's because an organization called the Gideons put them there, not necessarily because anyone asked for them, wants them, or reads them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#32

Post by Finnucane »

jlg23 wrote: post #12
hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

Bible, Thora and Koran are all good for that purpose because even if you don't know them in your own language, you can compare the foreign language version with your native version verse by numbered verse. So are publications by international bodies like the UN (though those tend to deal less with sex, drugs and rock-and-roll than the religious books).

I'd think that would not be very reliable considering how much variation there is among bible translations even in one language. For instance, if you compare some passages of the Jewish Publication Society translation of the Tanakh with some Christian translations of the OT, you might wonder if they were actually referring to the same original text.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#33

Post by asdkhadsj »

jlg23 wrote: post #15
klmr wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

"mental"? In rural areas of central Europe you'll quite often find the Bible in hotel rooms for your nightly bible lecture.

In the US too. Doesn't mean "christians" actually do that. Christians in my experience largely just like the label, very few follow through with a life of learning and loving.

edit: I should be clear, I'm just referring to christians by label; not anyone specifically. If you are christian and you read daily, put in effort to learn and love, more power to you. I appreciate you. That however seems abnormal in my experience. People tend to be lazy, and christians are after all people.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#34

Post by fabiospampinato »

notyourloops wrote: post #23

I learned how to turn a stream of nonsense (from my perspective) into words by listening to hundreds of hours of Spanish TV that I didn't understand. Spanish audio + Spanish subtitles (to figure out how to parse sound, and to map sound to writing), and then Spanish audio only (prevent reliance on reading). Surprisingly effective. Incomprehensible input appears to be quite valuable. At some point I'll try applying my…

Well that's pretty much how you learned your first language already! You didn't even need subtitles.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#35

Post by a-saleh »

klmr wrote: post #9
hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

When I was in high-school and college I did this a few times for several months. Pattern I usually fell into is reading a chapter of Proverbs or Ecclesiastes in the morning (to get my boost for this weird spiritual nihilistic stoicism) and a Psalm in the evening (that felt like more of a human connection)

I had friends who had that as a stable morning and evening ritual for years, complete with bible-studybook-journals e.t.c

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#36

Post by indigochill »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #16
hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

Using the bible is... contentious I'd say because there's a lot of differences between even English translations. I mean I guess the gist of it and the stories are roughly the same but it's definitely not a 1:1 translation between languages.

There's no such thing as a real 1:1 translation between languages anyway. Some words may map that way, but languages as a whole reflect their cultures. A common example from the New Testament is that English has just one word for "love" whereas Greek has several. We compromise by adding some adjective, like "brotherly love".

When learning a language, I've heard its best to not learn a direct mapping to a word in your original language but instead to, for example, place the word for "lamp" on a sticky note and stick it to a lamp in your house. This way you more directly associate the word with the object rather than the name in your original language, because you'll otherwise grow to rely on using your original language as a go-between from ideas to the foreign language, which will make fluency more difficult.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#37

Post by adrianN »

hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

Wouldn't your learn a pretty archaic version of the language? I know that the bible passages I've read were very strange compared to everyday speech.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#38

Post by pessimizer »

klmr wrote: post #9
hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

This is good advice, but > they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis This sounds mental. Reading the Bible on a daily basis? I’m pretty sure that this is not the norm for the vast majority of (devout) Christians (at least in Western/Central Europe).

I'd argue that it definitely is a norm for devout Christians in the US. Bible chapters are a lot shorter than you think (if you're not familiar with the Bible), though.

It's a bit of a No True Scotsman, but a lot of people who claim they're devout don't really read the Bible at all, just make public judgments about people. The actually devout people I know usually have a copy of the Bible near the bed, often with an issue of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Daily_Bread on top of it (A daily devotional.)

Very long-time atheist here.

Is it really that much of an ordeal to spend 10-20 minutes with the words of the creator and lord of your universe every day? IMO if that sounds tough, then the belief can't be serious. If you have a favorite 1 hour weekly TV show, that's almost the same amount of time committed.

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#39

Post by 0x38B »

hwj wrote: post #3

At least for Christians a good way to learn a foreign language is to read the Bible in that language, because (1) they are probably used to read a chapter or two on a daily basis (thus, the routine is already there), (2) and they probably remember some passages in their native tongue (thus, already having a translation of the text). This helped me. YMMV.

I do this, with English, Russian, and Ukrainian. Two suggestions:

- In MyBible[1] you can read multiple translations at once, e.g. English and Ukrainian. Double-tapping a word opens it in your installed dictionaries (which are found under 'Modules' in the app).

- Listen to an audiobook of what you're reading, as well: what you hear more directly influences your speaking skills. Also, too much reading and too little listening isn't good for pronunciation.

- Listening to the same things multiple times (repetition) is like Neo downloading Kung-fu into his brain in the Matrix.

1: https://mybible.zone/index-eng.php

Re: Unusual, evidence-based ways to get better at a new language

#40

Post by yawboakye »

Immersion still remains the best method. I've tried a plethora of approaches to learn German (not the easiest or most fancy and I swear I'm not masochist) and it's not working. The biggest progress I made came when I was forced to speak it with my gym buddy because that was our common denominator. That said, if you want to learn German, avoid Berlin. Everyone will meet you with English.
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