Earlier quoted context omitted.
I thought Marcel Grossmann was usually credited with helping Einstein with the tensor approach to General Relativity. All of this was more salient at the time, which the article points out: Hilbert carried a grudge against Einstein for a period of time. Lorentz was bitter about Einstein getting credit for special relativity to the end of his days, and Einstein denied ever having read Lorentz's or Poincare's papers ev…
Stigler's law of eponomy says that no scientific law is named after its discoverer [0]. What you're describing is far more common than you might think! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler%27s_law_of_eponymy
Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
31–40 of 66 posts
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#32(c.f https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_motu_corporum_in_gyrum)
It has been common to see such debates but at the end having advanced science is the main goal and these fights while fascinating are anecdotal.
I always wonder if one could rewrite math and physics without the use of names to describe a theory or a théorème but rather use a descriptive one.
General relativity is indeed well named instead of Einstein relativity, Pythagorean’s theorem could become the rectangle triangle theorem ...
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#33Einstein clearly is the "boss" of general relativity. He got the idea, worked on it, applied the maths, etc... So let him have his name.
But he wasn't alone. It is not possible to talk about general relativity without mentioning a dozen of brilliant minds that either helped him along the way or served as a foundation.
A part that I think is often forgotten is about the guys who made observations, the engineers and craftsmen who built the instruments, and the experimentalists who interpreted the results.
General relativity did one thing: solve the inconsistency regarding the orbit of Mercury. And without accurate measurement, that inconsistency would have been within the error margin, making general relativity nothing more than wankery.
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#34Does it matter? I think this misses the forest for the trees. Yeah, we can focus on the first to discover something, but awards and acknowledgments are often on first to publish, e.g. Make it public. After all, what does your grand descovery matter if you're the only one that knows about it and someone working in parallel finds it also and publishes first? And how does the scientific community verify the veracity of…
Does it matter? If we want an accurate historical record of human achievement, yes. That's separate to the end result. If you're focused on the theory and nothing else, then it doesn't really matter that Einstein wrote it either. We could remove the attribution entirely and the theory would still exist. Hilbert might have know about it first, but what does it matter to the world writ large if he didnt publish? Einste…
Can you provide 2 or 3 examples of that? I know there are STEM contributions on the engineering side - patents, work at NASA - that often go unmentioned, but I've never heard of solid evidence that actual provable research was ignored.
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stigler's law of eponomy says that no scientific law is named after its discoverer [0]. What you're describing is far more common than you might think! [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler%27s_law_of_eponymy
Great, new member in the elite club of rules that make their own exception
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#36> 2. The precession (change in orientation) of the perihelion (closest point of a planet to its star) of Mercury coming out to 18 inches rather than the observed 45 inches per century; Certainly 45” is arcseconds here, not inches!
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does it matter? If we want an accurate historical record of human achievement, yes. That's separate to the end result. If you're focused on the theory and nothing else, then it doesn't really matter that Einstein wrote it either. We could remove the attribution entirely and the theory would still exist. Hilbert might have know about it first, but what does it matter to the world writ large if he didnt publish? Einste…
There are plenty of examples of people from minorities (women and PoC especially) discovering theorems but the scientific community ignoring them Can you provide 2 or 3 examples of that? I know there are STEM contributions on the engineering side - patents, work at NASA - that often go unmentioned, but I've never heard of solid evidence that actual provable research was ignored.
Jocelyn Bell Burnell - discovered pulsars and went on to work with her thesis advisor Antony Hewish and Martin Ryle. They got the Nobel Prize for Physics and she didn't.
Ada Lovelace - invented computer programming but the credit went to Charles Babbage because he invented the hardware (one of the more well known examples; she gets some credit these days).
Rosalind Franklin - discovered the double helix structure of DNA using x-rays. Her theory was denounced by Watson and Crick who believed it was a single helix. They went on to win a Nobel Prize when they changed their minds and said it was actually a double helix after all.
Lise Meitner - discovered nuclear fission but the credit and Nobel Prize went to her lab partner Otto Hahn.
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#38The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…
Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#39Re: Who Did the Math for General Relativity First, Einstein or Hilbert?
#40The history misses several salient steps, like Lorentz and Poincare describing special relativity before 1905. I guess if you want to describe the controversy of general relativity you might not want to get distracted by the controversy over special relativity... but a pattern starts to emerge. Then the history leaves out Nordstrom's contributions to the theory of gravity which are really important if you are going t…
Practically every grad student encountering Kaluza-Klein (and other supergravities) or the PPN formalism will spend some time with Nordström's gravitation (and of course it is discussed in §27.6 and §38.2 of Misner Thorne & Wheeler, the gold standard textbook). In the latter case it is straightforward to see in modern terms where Nordström's 1913 theory would clash with solar-system observations (it was ruled out by the Eddington eclipse observation) and spectacularly falls apart for compact massive objects like the Hulse-Taylor binary. The theory inverts the spatial curvature generated by matter (PPN \gamma parameters for Newton, GR, and Nordstöm 1913 are 0, 1, and -1 respectively) and is only half-right for gravitational nonlinearity (\beta parameters 0, 1, and 1/2). Einstein-Fokker 1914 fails under PPN analysis in the same way, except that they properly fix the \zeta_{4} dynamical conservation parameter as 0, unlike Nordström 1913.
In my view, early 20th century alternatives to GR are interesting for how they failed. I accept the part of your argument that it is more interesting to some than to others about how much cross-fertilization there was among the developers of these theories. However, only GR has survived contact with all experimental tests, and it has proven extremely difficult for alternatives to match over multiple solid angle and wavelength scales what astronomers observe. The ways in which various extra-field approaches have failed are frankly more useful for theoretical physicists than the ways in which they were developed in the first place. And for astrophysicists, the only thing that matters is what has not -- so far -- failed.
So however he got there, at least with respect to gravitation Einstein deserves recognition for having produced pretty much the only viable physical theory. There's really only Jordan/Brans-Dicke in the limit of a vanishing \frac{1}{\omega} parameter, but at zero the theory reduces to GR itself; Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble if one does headstands to suppress spacetime torsion; early-decay bimetric theories, where the second metric field decouples or vanishes before nucleosynthesis; supergravity, if one figures out how to hide the gravitino; and string theory (M-theory), if one figures out the landscape problem and/or works out a general emergence of a PPN match. Notably every one of these evolved from General Relativity mostly because of its unique successes -- however, I think it is more interesting and better to say that these remain viable because they can in certain circumstances fully reproduce General Relativity.