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Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

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Re: Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

#31
post #6

Recent evidence tends to indicate that 'not smart enough' is probably a myth. Almost everything can be attributed to exposure and effort at some point rather than some innate smartness. A lot of advanced math takes some serious concentration to understand. For some non-practical aspects, I found that I lacked the motivation rather than ability to understand it . One particular class where I seemed to hit my tolerance…

Yup, motivation is the blocker.

I have repeatedly gotten tired of math when it seemed like meaningless puzzle-solving. Why do I really care, for example, how many nonabelian groups of order 36 exist? When math seems to me like it's providing a vocabulary for framing and answering deep questions about the world, or making it computationally feasible to find the stamp of causal influence in data or design real things that are impossible to make without out, then the motivation is there.

This might just be an artifact of the way math is often taught. For example, real analysis is often taught as meaningless proof-finding (e.g. proving things that seem either pointless or obvious). But there's a fantastic book, _A Radical Approach to Real Analysis_ by David Bressoud, that teaches the exact same subject matter as the fruit of deep, pressing, and non-obvious questions that stirred debate among mathematicians for around 100 years.

Re: Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

#32
post #12

I don't know, how about every subject? Multiplication. Long division. Algebra. Geometry. Trig. Calc. I was never very motivated to study math. The problem was, my older brother was very into it(and now is a math grad student, ever-so-slowly getting his thesis together). This set a model that I could not hope to emulate, but it only meant my mom pushed me more, talked to the school to get me into the advanced/accelera…

"The former Soviet educational system, OTOH, had probably some of the strongest math education, and much of it has been translated to English - pick up a book from that period and you will probably see a small and dense text that introduces high-level concepts in great, if unforgiving, detail. Very different from the thick drill+practice textbooks I'm used to." Could you provide a url for some of these? Should I look…

I second that.

This is one of the best ones:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ikMAzFXpFOsC&printsec=f...

btw if anyone wants to do a collaborative chapter by chapter self-study, just send me a private message. I have had it on my shelf for a while but haven't taken the time to do a few pages a day as intended.

Re: Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

#33
post #6

Recent evidence tends to indicate that 'not smart enough' is probably a myth. Almost everything can be attributed to exposure and effort at some point rather than some innate smartness. A lot of advanced math takes some serious concentration to understand. For some non-practical aspects, I found that I lacked the motivation rather than ability to understand it . One particular class where I seemed to hit my tolerance…

Would you happen to have any links or book references to this "recent evidence"? While most of success comes from effort and discipline, I've always been under the impression that only the naturally gifted (who also have discipline and drive) can/have achieve/achieved certain things. The dwarf down the street from me will never be a professional football player, and someone with a 100 IQ will never be an astronaut. I've always felt the you-can-always-achieve-whatever-you-want-no-matter-what-if-you-want-it-bad-enough approach to be more than a little cliched and misguided. If recent scientific evidence has disproved this stance of mine, I'm open to changing it.

Re: Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

#37
post #6

Recent evidence tends to indicate that 'not smart enough' is probably a myth. Almost everything can be attributed to exposure and effort at some point rather than some innate smartness. A lot of advanced math takes some serious concentration to understand. For some non-practical aspects, I found that I lacked the motivation rather than ability to understand it . One particular class where I seemed to hit my tolerance…

Would you happen to have any links or book references to this "recent evidence"? While most of success comes from effort and discipline, I've always been under the impression that only the naturally gifted (who also have discipline and drive) can/have achieve/achieved certain things. The dwarf down the street from me will never be a professional football player, and someone with a 100 IQ will never be an astronaut. I…

To be honest, I believe that all intelligence comes from innate motivations and practice. You suddenly become 10x more "intelligent" when you actually give a shit or get some innate joy or obsession relieved when you do it. If that is something that is constant within you, you become more and more practiced and a virtuious cycle results. Nothing is too hard to explain, it's just mathematicians are really horrible at communicating.

Re: Ask HN: Where did you top out in math classes?

#39
post #28

Seems to me all or most human understanding of maths is poor. Most things, even if we can prove them, we can not really understand them. I wonder if there is a different way to understand maths out there.

you're probably a victim of rote learning math classes. learning math for real (getting it) is not a linear process. lots of aha moments where lots of concepts fall into place suddenly and then you move on to more advanced things.

that said, I would consider everything below calculus to be merely clever ways of tallying stones. algebra can be tricky at times (abstract algebra sucks) but it is really not that interesting in of itself (yes you can solve a lot of practical problems with it but the questions aren't generally interesting, so the answers aren't that interesting). you do need to have it down pat in order to "get" calculus however. And if you "get" at least the basic concept of calculus down a lot of things fall in to place.

OTOH I could be totally biased and/or wrong, but I personally didn't really see how math could describe complex systems in a way that let me get those complex systems until calc. Some really mind blowing aha moments.

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