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Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

gwern.net

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Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#31

Post by ben_w »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

It depends. If these are spherical rationalists in a vacuum, they’ll know what you know about how to detect it’s use and set their usage to the highest undetectable level. Having a time machine might make this trivial to achieve, depending only on if it’s possible to change the past in this model of time travel.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#32

Post by Ajedi32 »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

Sounds like a different anime to me. El Psy Kongroo.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#33

Post by the8472 »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

Time machines can be used as computers to reduce PSPACE (which includes NP) problems to constant time.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#34

Post by thfuran »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

Assuming it's a reasonably high-bandwidth channel, very careful and guarded use seems much more boring than bootstrapping the singularity. So, hopefully you can find them and supplant them.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#35

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

If allowed to send a message back in time any mistakes made by such a person could be fixed presumably. It would seem to me that you would have to detect that someone is playing with time, find out who that is and then capture them before they learn that you know and send a message back to kill you.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#36

Post by danShumway »

arugulum wrote: post #28
cbau wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly, it has to be something that the person was actually capable of, otherwise the person just dies.

The person is capable of writing down X, it's a handful of digits. Moreover it is not unreasonable for an amateur mathematician to do so. The fact that they entirely lucky that the series of digits indeed satisfies the mathematical condition we want is incidental but I believe abides by Death Note rules.

I think "capable" also takes into account knowledge they have.

It's been a while since I watched Death Note, but isn't this brought up as a reason why Kira can't do, "writes down L's real name, then dies of a heart attack."?

It would be theoretically possible for someone to be lucky enough to guess L's real name, but apparently the note has a bullcrap detector or something where it eventually just says, "no, they wouldn't really know to do that."

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#37

Post by wyxuan »

s_y_n_t_a_x wrote: post #7
lawn wrote: post #6

If it's true that privacy is dead, how come Satoshi is still unknown?

He/they may be known to some. https://medium.com/cryptomuse/how-the-nsa-caught-satoshi-nak...

Stylometry only works too an extent with helping to identify what's what. I could just stylometry to show that this document was written by a professional screenwriter, but it writing style isn't unique enough to identify one person out of billions. Gwern has an excellent post about this.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#38

Post by rsync »

d4mi3n wrote: post #4

This was well cited with a lot of fun media references. The author makes a few interesting points on rationale for randomization, calling known unknowns and confounding factors as something one could plan for and avoid. Anybody know of other writers that do research and writing in this style? I quite enjoyed it.

"Anybody know of other writers that do research and writing in this style? I quite enjoyed it."

This is what immediately comes to mind:

https://slatestarcodex.com/

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#39

Post by arugulum »

I would frame things a little differently. Light makes a lot of mistakes because the Death note is incredibly powerful and there would be almost no reasonable way for L to catch Light without Light making obvious mistakes (and would also make for a boring story). Undoubtedly, the biggest mistake Light makes is revealing the existence of the Death Note, and all the rules therein, which not only gives L (almost) all the information he needs, but also traps him from any subsequent activity.

Without knowing the rules of the Death Note, I don't think L could have done anything (besides outright abducting/murdering Light) to stop Light, even if he is 100% sure Light is "responsible".

That said, I feel like a much simpler solution than what's proposed at the end of the essay is:

1. Gather up the names you want to write over the course of a week. 2. Wait another week, then write it at a specific point of time of the week. 3. Keep to that schedule.

The names need to be as public and as well known as possible such that it would be impossible to trace the flow of information. (Remember, the goal is fear, not specificity.) Keeping to that schedule means you will never leak more information thereafter.

Re: Death Note: L, Anonymity and Eluding Entropy (2017)

#40

Post by bartwe »

Malic wrote: post #23

This is somewhat related to a thought experiment of mine. Suppose you had a means of transmitting information back in time - a one-node network that effectively could email to itself with a timestamp (in the past) being the message's "recipient." Suppose such a thing existed in the world today. Assume the individuals in possession of such a thing were very intelligent, very careful and very guarded about its use. Cou…

I wonder, can they A/B test alternatives with that time machine ? Would they settle for a comfortable 'small' one time lottery winnings? Or try and create a dynasty for a longer lived family/institution. Also the person in the future, would they 'join' their new history ?
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