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IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

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Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#31

Post by kchamplewski »

js8 wrote: post #14

Of course, the explanation is BS, everybody sees that. But I want to comment that as a young mainframer (I started 14 years ago at the age of 26, with a big IBM competitor), I really enjoyed working with older people. They work quite hard (they have survived lots of changes in the organization, and that - in majority of cases - means that their contribution was appreciated somewhere), often are less crazy (they are s…

I'm curious, how many real competitors are there to IBM in the mainframe space? From what I've seen the majority of the products in use are basically IBM only.

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#32

Post by lozenge »

AmVess wrote: post #20
ekc wrote: post #9

Haven't they gotten headlines for this almost every year for the past three decades?

Pretty much. They've been scything employees for as long as I've been working. They've also been in court many times over age discrimination...at least for as long as I can remember. They had their own decently sized building where I used to live, now there isn't a single employee in the entire state. IBM is far past the point where they can appeal to younger folks. They have no headspace in anyone under 40, and cert…

What large company isn't in court over age discrimination? Google just settled a class action where one job applicant was literally asked to put his graduation year on his CV "so the engineers can see your age".

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#33

Post by riffraff »

MegaButts wrote: post #22

I was curious what IBM still makes that people use since they sold their Thinkpad division to Lenovo years ago, so I googled it: > IBM produces and sells computer hardware, middleware and software, and provides hosting and consulting services in areas ranging from mainframe computers to nanotechnology. IBM is also a major research organization, holding the record for most U.S. patents generated by a business (as of 2…

they have patents on a ton of stuff, I'm sure some of those make sense. As they say, "9,100 patents granted in 2018" [0]

[0] https://www.research.ibm.com/patents/

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#34

Post by negamax »

When companies can't invent because they lost their graymatter to bureaucracy they go into an even more self destructing spiral. By cutting costs and squeezing themselves. With open source, patent regime in end game i.e. rent seeking. How a company like IBM can remain relevant? Their AI offering was a major marketing campaign. Just sad but some great lessons

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#35

Post by robbyt »

kchamplewski wrote: post #31
js8 wrote: post #14

Of course, the explanation is BS, everybody sees that. But I want to comment that as a young mainframer (I started 14 years ago at the age of 26, with a big IBM competitor), I really enjoyed working with older people. They work quite hard (they have survived lots of changes in the organization, and that - in majority of cases - means that their contribution was appreciated somewhere), often are less crazy (they are s…

I'm curious, how many real competitors are there to IBM in the mainframe space? From what I've seen the majority of the products in use are basically IBM only.

Oracle :-|

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#36

Post by lboc »

jve wrote: post #5

Firing talent because of age is not so smart I think. Of course I don't know who they fire, etc. But I'm young, yeah, and I want to distance myself from IBM products. Why? I'v been setting IBM Tivoli/Spectrum protect to backup client computers and, ugh, is it ugly, unfriendly and complex piece of software. I'v also touched the server part. Maybe it's just me, the windows guy (but who loves scripting) and it is more a…

Ugly, unfriendly and complex is par for the course with enterprise software in my experience :)

Having said that, TSM (what they called it before the rebranding) was the only commercial offering we found that would reliably back up and recover our systems...

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#37

Post by perbu »

kchamplewski wrote: post #31
js8 wrote: post #14

Of course, the explanation is BS, everybody sees that. But I want to comment that as a young mainframer (I started 14 years ago at the age of 26, with a big IBM competitor), I really enjoyed working with older people. They work quite hard (they have survived lots of changes in the organization, and that - in majority of cases - means that their contribution was appreciated somewhere), often are less crazy (they are s…

I'm curious, how many real competitors are there to IBM in the mainframe space? From what I've seen the majority of the products in use are basically IBM only.

There used to be quite a few different mainframes on the market. HP/Tandem had their Non-stop systems which was perhaps the most distinct competitor - but there were quite a few companies competing in the space.

However, IBM has dominated this market for as long as I can remember and today I believe they are the only ones making mainframe computers.

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#38

Post by martinpw »

meddlepal wrote: post #10
fouc wrote: post #7

s/Millennials/Generation Z/ at this point. Millennials are all in their 30s and older now.

It really depends on the definition of millennial that is used. I'm in my early 30s but I have a couple friends that are 24/25/26 and personally they align as millennials rather than Gen Z. Very tail end of course but definitely millennial.

Makes me sad that anyone chooses to self identify into marketing buckets like this.

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#39

Post by hinkley »

jve wrote: post #5

Firing talent because of age is not so smart I think. Of course I don't know who they fire, etc. But I'm young, yeah, and I want to distance myself from IBM products. Why? I'v been setting IBM Tivoli/Spectrum protect to backup client computers and, ugh, is it ugly, unfriendly and complex piece of software. I'v also touched the server part. Maybe it's just me, the windows guy (but who loves scripting) and it is more a…

IBM Global Services in particular have left a bad taste in my mouth and many others. That sort of bad blood is going to be hard to overcome. But the kids are for the most part unfamiliar with their... exploits.

Re: IBM Fired as Many as 100k in Recent Years, Lawsuit Shows

#40

Post by MagnumOpus »

Apocryphon wrote: post #13
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #3

I doubt IBM lays off its older workers solely to appeal to Millenials. It's more likely that older workers are laid off because they are more expensive due to higher higher pay, have more paid time off, use more healthcare and are more politically calibrated to their organizations than younger workers.

It feels like something that IBM regularly does, similar to Cisco's revolving lay-off cycles. Microserfs by Douglas Coupland has a part where the protagonist's father is fired from IBM after being there for years.

Well, Microserfs was written in 1994, just after IBM's 1993 cataclysm where Lou Gerstner was hired to save the company and immediately fired 160,000 people. That was very much a one-off event.
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