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Minimalism: It Works

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Re: Minimalism: It Works

#32
post #26

I don't understand what people like KirinDave are referring to when they discuss Minimalism. Anything beyond drill-down UX exercises like eliminating information clutter in visual design seems to immediately break down. Assuming we're talking about something more general than eliminating the widgets from our blog sidebars... What ARE we talking about? I guess I could imagine it going one step higher, into a campaign…

I mostly agree with you except for this "You can't possibly expect me to believe that only having five shirts in your closet will make you a different person, or even a different worker. "

stripping away everything that you don't actually use in your day to day life has a remarkable psychological effect.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#33

tl;dr

But seriously, this is why I don't especially care for minimalism: '[a]t its core, Minimalism is about being aware that every decision you make is a value proposition, and that you need to judge how the consequences fit with your goals.'

Focus is good, but an excess of it results in tunnel vision. It also leaves little room for whimsy or humor.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#34
I agree that the article by Vivek is totally misinformed.

I've taken a couple stabs at minimalism (of possessions) in my life, staring when I moved from Austin to Seattle in 1995. I'm doing so again after relocating from Seattle to San Francisco a year ago.

There is absolutely no doubt that I've been happiest during those periods when I've had the fewest 'things'. I look back at the time when I downsized from a 1000 sq. ft. apartment in Seattle to 500 sq. ft. studio as the most productive and enjoyable time of my life.

Since moving here to SF, my wife and I have almost halved the space we occupy from a 1600 sq ft townhouse in Seattle to a very comfortable 850 sq ft. in San Francisco. I continue to get rid of the stuff and replace it with either 'virtual stuff' (e.g. electronic books) or just happily do without (e.g. espresso machine).

The main reason I 'upsized' from the small apartment to the large townhouse was that I felt like at my age at the time (30) I was 'supposed to'. I was the only one of my friends/work-mates that hadn't gotten married and/or had children, and bought a house. Oh, what a mistake! Now, ten years later, I'm so glad I'm back to shrinking the possessions in favor of a leaner, simpler life. For the first time since I was 16 I do not own a car. I have no debt (and with the exception of the townhouse and a couple years of credit card debt, I haven't since 1998).

I'm totally sold on continuing down this path, as she is as well. We don't plan on having children. We are both 40+ and enjoy the idea of moving around some more, perhaps even relocating overseas in time.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#35
post #34

I agree that the article by Vivek is totally misinformed. I've taken a couple stabs at minimalism (of possessions) in my life, staring when I moved from Austin to Seattle in 1995. I'm doing so again after relocating from Seattle to San Francisco a year ago. There is absolutely no doubt that I've been happiest during those periods when I've had the fewest 'things'. I look back at the time when I downsized from a 1000…

I'm also sold on the minimalism of possessions, but somehow I'm not as sold on the aesthetic and cultural/work-habits stuff that articles like this tie in, which I don't think necessarily have to go together. I don't want to own tons of stuff that I have to spend money on, haul around when I move, etc., but I actually like clutter, distractions, etc. The way I combine those preferences is by outsourcing the clutter: for example, instead of owning a huge library of books, I spend my time in libraries that other people own (universities, public libraries, the occasional book-heavy coffee shop). I couldn't imagine working in a minimalist environment!

I haven't made much use of it myself yet, but hacker spaces do that with offices to some extent as well. You can have a minimalist apartment, but still work in a hectic, filled-with-stuff place like Noisebridge.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#36
post #26

I don't understand what people like KirinDave are referring to when they discuss Minimalism. Anything beyond drill-down UX exercises like eliminating information clutter in visual design seems to immediately break down. Assuming we're talking about something more general than eliminating the widgets from our blog sidebars... What ARE we talking about? I guess I could imagine it going one step higher, into a campaign…

I mostly agree with you except for this "You can't possibly expect me to believe that only having five shirts in your closet will make you a different person, or even a different worker. " stripping away everything that you don't actually use in your day to day life has a remarkable psychological effect.

Less shirts helps your mind? Really? Really? Not even close to convinced.

There are a ton of thunguses in one's life that can be ditched to remove the maintenance of. There's a lot of validity in that particular concept.

But when one wants to develop a fuller life than virtually living - things become useful towards that goal. Let me give some examples.

* Musical instruments. iPad instruments just don't cut it.

* Older books. There are a ton of out-of-print and hard-to-find books that just aren't online, especially in the non-tech fields.

* Gardening requires tools.

* Any variant of a construction trade requires tools.

* Travelling longer distances in a place without a densely connected public transport requires (bike | car | skateboard | etc), which requires maintenance tools.

* Cooking & baking requires a multitude of tools; hosting people for dinner requires kitchenware.

* Offline gaming usually requires game boards & misc accouterments.

I could go on, but those examples are from my own life. The existence of a monk is simply not pragmatically livable for people who fancy dealing with the physical. I like some of Christopher Alexander's writings as he searched for a pattern language in architecture. He considered highly complex systems where people engaged in their environment and lived and hypothesized the idea of the "Quality without a Name", and he had this to say about it, "It is a subtle kind of freedom from inner contradictions". What I see the Minimalism people striving for is this freedom, and they are seeking this freedom by removing as many pieces from the system as they can so that the contradictions go away. I - obviously - don't think that this is the complete solution.

While environments and ourselves do mutually shape each other, I believe that a complete solution is to work towards being consistent and uncontradictory with the things we have both in our heads and outside of them. Sometimes that's getting rid of things, sometimes that's adding things, and other times that's simply changing things around.

Well, that's my 0.02c anyway.

(edit1: formatting)

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#37
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Re: Minimalism: It Works

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you except for this "You can't possibly expect me to believe that only having five shirts in your closet will make you a different person, or even a different worker. " stripping away everything that you don't actually use in your day to day life has a remarkable psychological effect.

Less shirts helps your mind? Really? Really? Not even close to convinced. There are a ton of thunguses in one's life that can be ditched to remove the maintenance of. There's a lot of validity in that particular concept. But when one wants to develop a fuller life than virtually living - things become useful towards that goal. Let me give some examples. * Musical instruments. iPad instruments just don't cut it. * Old…

Why is it that your definition of minimalism is paucity? The movement's canonical definition is: the right amount of things for your goals. If you are a cook, a well-appointed kitchen is the Right Thing to have. Anything less is just a conceit, and itself a violation of the goal-oriented thinking we've been talking about.

There is this idea of zen and asceticism that has crept into the conversation and honestly I'm not sure what reputable source people are drawing it from. No one is saying you should be living on a tatami mat and with 256kb of storage. No one worth listening to is saying you should avoid owning a pet or enjoying an occasional drink with an umbrella in it.

A lot of people, particularly in our affluent western world, simply say "yes" to the do-I-want-more-stuff proposition. They don't ask, "Do I need this? Does it serve a purpose?" I think the world would be a better place if people made a habit of asking that question and not being afraid of saying, "No." Even if the answer is "Yes," the conscious consideration of utility has benefits.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#39
post #17

No big surprise that a disciple of neo-modernism would present their arguments with a title straight out of an apple marketing campaign.

Sorry if you feel this way. I have no control over what title someone will submit my story as. My title was the counter-claim of the article I was rebutting.

Re: Minimalism: It Works

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less shirts helps your mind? Really? Really? Not even close to convinced. There are a ton of thunguses in one's life that can be ditched to remove the maintenance of. There's a lot of validity in that particular concept. But when one wants to develop a fuller life than virtually living - things become useful towards that goal. Let me give some examples. * Musical instruments. iPad instruments just don't cut it. * Old…

Why is it that your definition of minimalism is paucity? The movement's canonical definition is: the right amount of things for your goals. If you are a cook, a well-appointed kitchen is the Right Thing to have. Anything less is just a conceit, and itself a violation of the goal-oriented thinking we've been talking about. There is this idea of zen and asceticism that has crept into the conversation and honestly I'm n…

I'm not sure of the origins of the zenny/ascetic minimalist idea either, but it certainly is present, and not a figment of my imagination (http://cultofless.com/ is an example, so is http://www.farbeyondthestars.com/minimalist-freedom-how-to-l...). And that's really the sort of thing I am talking about. It's not immoral to have stuff, and I feel this "stuff is immoral" vibe floating around from some proponents of Minimalism). Some stuff is worth keeping, and lives that deal in physical things simply need physical stuff. Be prepared, as the Boy Scouts say.
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